Running ZSNES in native res on Data monitor?

EricS · Post by **EricS** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:56 am

Hi, I've searched the forums for an answer to this question but I haven't seen any specific answers.

I want to run ZSNES on my Mitsubishi Diamond Scan 20 M monitor. I know this monitor will display the SNES's native video output since I've hooked my snes up to the RGB ports in the back.

Now, if I set ZSNES to 256x224 or 521x448 in the video settings it only resizes the video, it does not change resolutions. I know this because normally when I change change resolutions the monitor goes black for a second, then their is a loud click and the screen reappears. With game systems I can also very easily see the scanlines and the difference in video. So even though ZSNES says that it is running in 256x224, it really isn't. I have run powerstrip, and have set a custom res of 256x224 or 512x448, but I can never get it to sync properly. I do not know the exact specifications to do so. Again, I know it WILL display the image since I have actually ran a real snes on this monitor before. Additionally, I have run games through Advancemame at low frequencies and resolutions, so I know the card I am using is capable of it. I am using an NVIDIA Geforce FX 5200.

The closest I have come to the image I want is by setting a mode of 640x480 intelaced in powerstrip, then running ZSNES in 640x480 DR Full. This results in an image where one line of pixels in the game image results in exactly one line in between scanlines, which is what I am aiming for. However, this image does not fit the entire screen like the snes image does. If I use 640x480 DS full the scanlines do not have a one line per one line of pixels ratio anymore and the image is not as sharp.

My goal here is to reproduce as authentically as possibly the image the SNES outputs, real scanlines and all. So I'm not worried about any kind of progressive image or blending or anything. Even if the result is a technically inferior one to what is possible, I would still like the TV output look, but with the sharpness and rgb quality this industrial monitor provides, as well as all the benefits of playing roms on ZSNES.

So does anyone here know anyway to do this with ZSNES or any other emulator? What settings should I use in powerstrip?

Most importantly, is there anything like Advancemame or Advanceconfig but for the SNES?

Thanks in advance to anyone who posts.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:17 am

It is running at the res you specified (256x224 or 512x448), but it is running in Windowed mode, so you won't ever see the change/hear the loud clicks.

EricS · Post by **EricS** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:32 pm

It is not running in windowed mode, unless you mean that ZSNES is always in windowed mode, even in full screen.

Or do you mean that it is making a 256x224 window in full screen mode. It is not doing that. The screen takes up just as much space in 640x480 R as it does in 256x224 R.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:02 pm

I'm pretty sure you want a DS mode and not a DR mode. S means scale.

EricS · Post by **EricS** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:22 am

I have run in both DR and DS modes with the same results.

If I run in DS mode then the scanlines do not correspond to a line of pixels, thus reducing the sharpness of the image. I'm basically looking for a way to have the sharpness of the R mode but in full screen. I know this is possible, because whenever I run a real snes on this monitor I can see it. Is the console somehow stretching the image, or is the monitor doing so?

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:35 am

EricS wrote:I have run in both DR and DS modes with the same results.

If I run in DS mode then the scanlines do not correspond to a line of pixels, thus reducing the sharpness of the image. I'm basically looking for a way to have the sharpness of the R mode but in full screen. I know this is possible, because whenever I run a real snes on this monitor I can see it. Is the console somehow stretching the image, or is the monitor doing so?

It's neither, really.
There's no stretching going on. The SNES simply didn't draw square pixels. And since all displays at the time were analog, it was easy to get away with arbitrary resolutions by farting with signal timings.

Unfortunately, arbitrary pixel dimensions are hard to do on PCs.

It's sorta like trying to fake a fountain pen with a ballpoint. If you sketch enough, you can make it look KINDA the same, but not really.

Weird console signals also blow up in interesting ways when fed to many digital displays that assume standard NTSC or VGA signals on the analog connections.

blackmyst · Post by **blackmyst** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:41 pm

Are you using the NTSC filter? If not, turn that on, and try using 1280x960 DS. Works near perfect for me.

EricS · Post by **EricS** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:59 pm

Ahh, this makes a lot of sense. You see, when I plug my snes into the monitor, which is a CRT monitor by the way, the image is squashed and doesn't go all the way to the edge of the screen both vertically and horizonitally. However, it isn't squashed from the sides like in an R mode in ZSNES, but instead it is squashed on the top and bottom, about 2 inches on a 20 inch monitor. The sides are squashed about 1/2 inch. By using the monitor controls I can stretch the image and make it fit the screen like it would on a television. So in this case I am merely using the monitor controls to stretch the size of the pixels. When I look at them closely, they are not square at all, much more rectangular in shape. Also, I have noticed that the type of pixels are radically different from that of my tv. They are arranged in horizontal rows, whereas the TV is very different, with a sort of honeycomb structure.

So, I believe the closest I am going to come to an authentic image is to use 640x480 interlaced, which has a one line to pixel ratio, then stretch the image with my monitor controls. I have tried this before, and the image will not stretch all the way to fit the screen, but that is just a limitation of my monitor screen resizing capabilities.

Has anyone else out there tried this sort of thing?

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:08 pm

EricS wrote:Ahh, this makes a lot of sense. You see, when I plug my snes into the monitor, which is a CRT monitor by the way, the image is squashed and doesn't go all the way to the edge of the screen both vertically and horizonitally. However, it isn't squashed from the sides like in an R mode in ZSNES, but instead it is squashed on the top and bottom, about 2 inches on a 20 inch monitor. The sides are squashed about 1/2 inch. By using the monitor controls I can stretch the image and make it fit the screen like it would on a television. So in this case I am merely using the monitor controls to stretch the size of the pixels. When I look at them closely, they are not square at all, much more rectangular in shape. Also, I have noticed that the type of pixels are radically different from that of my tv. They are arranged in horizontal rows, whereas the TV is very different, with a sort of honeycomb structure.

If it is squashed as you say it is, you should check the Filters tab and uncheck "Keep 4:3 Ratio".

Mark7 · Post by **Mark7** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:13 pm

Easiest way would be to use 640*480 and disable stretch in zsnes, then stretch the image to fullscreen using your monitor controls.

Another way that i know works is adding the custom resolution 512*480 (512*448 does not work) using Powerstrip. Then use snes9x and choose this resultion. I never tried this with zsnes, maybe it works as well.

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:30 pm

EricS wrote:Ahh, this makes a lot of sense. You see, when I plug my snes into the monitor, which is a CRT monitor by the way, the image is squashed and doesn't go all the way to the edge of the screen both vertically and horizonitally. However, it isn't squashed from the sides like in an R mode in ZSNES, but instead it is squashed on the top and bottom, about 2 inches on a 20 inch monitor. The sides are squashed about 1/2 inch. By using the monitor controls I can stretch the image and make it fit the screen like it would on a television.

That's probably more due to TV overscan than anything else.
TVs are actually designed to project a good bit of the image off the edges of the screen on all 4 sides, for various reasons. Monitors tend towards displaying everything. Some SNES games will actually show black on the edges on some TVs.
StarFox is best known for it due to the very large "frame," though Chrono Trigger does it on all of my TVs(albeit just barely on one of them).

So in this case I am merely using the monitor controls to stretch the size of the pixels. When I look at them closely, they are not square at all, much more rectangular in shape. Also, I have noticed that the type of pixels are radically different from that of my tv. They are arranged in horizontal rows, whereas the TV is very different, with a sort of honeycomb structure.

And THAT is due to the monitor using a better CRT more than anything else.

So, I believe the closest I am going to come to an authentic image is to use 640x480 interlaced, which has a one line to pixel ratio, then stretch the image with my monitor controls. I have tried this before, and the image will not stretch all the way to fit the screen, but that is just a limitation of my monitor screen resizing capabilities.

Has anyone else out there tried this sort of thing?

Resizing with monitor controls used to be the recommended solution, back in the days of CRT monitors with dials and knobs. For the very reason that it DOES generate an aspect-correct image with no scaling artifacts.

As menu-based monitor adjustments became the norm, that became very inconvenient, and we moved to using pre-stretched displays generated in ZSNES. At higher resolutions, the artifacting is far less prominent. And once you get to LCDs the most desirable option is to do the scaling on the computer side and feed the LCD it's native resolution, because LCD scalers tend to suck.

...

God, I feel old.