Pal to NTSC game??

maxharm · Post by **maxharm** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:53 pm

Hi everyone , I don't know if it as been posted , so I don't find anything else about that. I don't know if this is feasible but I would want to load a game PAL into my snes who is in NTSC. I know that the snes cartridges are Rom memories so I couldn't write a program , but could I replace the chips of a game by an eprom or eeprom or whatever who could be reprogramed and load the program of the snes rom in the cartridge. If there is a better solution i'm awaiting your suggestions.

paulguy · Post by **paulguy** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:43 pm

You could get a SNES flash cart thing. Ask someone else here for what brand to get. Then, at that point, you may as well just run the NTSC version. There might be a way to mod the SNES to output 50hz PAL but im not sure. Someone want to provide more information?

maxharm · Post by **maxharm** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:48 pm

I don't want to alter my Snes, so mod to pal is not a good idea. If it could be possible to get a cartridge like a factory one and I could play with the game who never born in north America it could be cool. I think this should not be very hard to do but I don't know how.

adventure_of_link · Post by **adventure_of_link** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:44 pm

paulguy wrote:There might be a way to mod the SNES to output 50hz PAL but im not sure. Someone want to provide more information?

http://board.zsnes.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11256

maxharm wrote:If it could be possible to get a cartridge like a factory one and I could play with the game who never born in north America it could be cool. I think this should not be very hard to do but I don't know how.

http://grinvader.free.fr/pics/top_on_pal.jpg (although this IS NTSC to PAL)...

declan · Post by **declan** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:46 am

I'm not 100% certain what your question is, but are you trying to play a game designed for PAL on an NTSC console?

From what i have been told in these forums, it is very rare that a game is redesigned for PAL (almost always, games are designed for the Japanese Super Famicom, which is NTSC), the game is simply put in a different cart and the Jap CIC chip (the security chip used by nintendo to impliment regional lockout (which you are trying to over come) and to prevent piracy) is replaced by a PAL CIC
(the above info applies to the majority of snes game, BUT NOT ALL, ESPECAILY GAMES USING ENHANCEMENT CHIPS).

So in short..... most of the PAL games you are wanting to play simply need the CIC replaced with an NTSC CIC and have the casing removed, 'cause the PAL cart casing won't fit in an NTSC console.

Post by **grinvader** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:13 am

declan wrote:have the casing removed, 'cause the PAL cart casing won't fit in an NTSC console.

Partially incorrect.
PAL SNES carts are shaped exactly like SFC carts. US SNES carts are the oddballs there. See the pic AoL linked to for example (SFC cart, PAL SNES deck - the IC in the middle is the guts of a PAR2, which I use to circumvent the lockout chip by using the one from the rear slot cart)

Btw, cookie if you can tell what *is* in the rear slot. ;D

maxharm · Post by **maxharm** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:42 pm

So in short..... most of the PAL games you are wanting to play simply need the CIC replaced with an NTSC CIC and have the casing removed, 'cause the PAL cart casing won't fit in an NTSC console.

Ok you have understand what I mean , this is exactly what i want to do , if I could take the program of the game that I want , a rom on the net who suppose to be a Pal game and I load this program into a chip, I replace the chip of a cart who suppose to load another game, will this work? The game is seiken densetsu 3 is a waste my time to try ?

Post by **grinvader** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:57 pm

maxharm wrote:The game is seiken densetsu 3

... That's a NTSC game.

declan · Post by **declan** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:36 pm

Hey grinvader, is the game in the back, Super Mario World?????
Y'know, all we have to work with is, that blue strip at the side of the lable.

Post by **grinvader** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:43 pm

declan wrote:Hey grinvader, is the game in the back, Super Mario World?????
Y'know, all we have to work with is, that blue strip at the side of the lable. :)

You have:
- blue stripe
- PAL SNES label (see the dash of grey under the SUPER ? that reads PAL VERSION)
- not obvious yet experienced PARers know this: not a game with SRAM
- game I like a lot

PAL SMW has a yellow stripe.
And no, it's not F-Zero. :p

maxharm · Post by **maxharm** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:22 am

No the game is a Pal version and it<s never be a NTSC version!

Post by **grinvader** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:53 am

maxharm wrote:No the game is a Pal version and it<s never be a NTSC version!

Uh huh. And you obviously know this from your impressive 0 years of experience.

Ok, I'll be nice and explain ONE time.
SD3 was released in japan only. It's NTSC: you just need to remove the casing to play it in a US snes.
But it's in japanese. You can't play it like that. Boohoo.

A big effort was made to fan-translate it worldwide. The english patch is awesome and made the game enjoyable to many english-reading gamers. Other languages were done. There was much rejoicing.

But some didn't like playing it on an emulator.
Someone made a cart of a german patched SD3 made to work on PAL german consoles.
It's PAL: you have to do all sorts of shit to make it run on a US NTSC deck.
It's in german. I'd assume a NTSC SNES user would be more familiar with english than german.

Advice: grab the japanese ROM, patch it to whatever language you want, and play it on a damn emulator.
Or pay someone big bucks to make you an english NTSC SD3 real cart - you surely lack the skills and devices needed to pull it on your own.

Niceness over.

declan · Post by **declan** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:34 am

grinvader wrote: not obvious yet experienced PARers know this: not a game with SRAM

Well i'm no experienced PARer, but, is the way you can tell the difference: games with SRAM have the picture pushed right up to the left of the lable, and the snes/ pal version lable on the right, and games without SRAM have the picture pushed slightly to the right and the snes/ pal version lable are on the left???
I made those assumptions, just taking a quick glance at my snes collection after i read your post.

maxharm · Post by **maxharm** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:55 pm

Uh huh. And you obviously know this from your impressive 0 years of experience.

Ok, I'll be nice and explain ONE time.
SD3 was released in japan only. It's NTSC: you just need to remove the casing to play it in a US snes.
But it's in japanese. You can't play it like that. Boohoo.

A big effort was made to fan-translate it worldwide. The english patch is awesome and made the game enjoyable to many english-reading gamers. Other languages were done. There was much rejoicing.

But some didn't like playing it on an emulator.
Someone made a cart of a german patched SD3 made to work on PAL german consoles.
It's PAL: you have to do all sorts of shit to make it run on a US NTSC deck.
It's in german. I'd assume a NTSC SNES user would be more familiar with english than german.

Advice: grab the japanese ROM, patch it to whatever language you want, and play it on a damn emulator.
Or pay someone big bucks to make you an english NTSC SD3 real cart - you surely lack the skills and devices needed to pull it on your own.

Niceness over.

Ok I understand , your right this isn't PAL so there is no problem and no regional lockout on this , so is it possible to put the program of the game translated into a cart system with the same hardware. Equipped with the save system and I don't know if there is an enhancement chips. If this is impossible I don't want that you tell me that I know nothing , tell me if I waste my time or not.[/quote][/code]

Post by **grinvader** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:54 pm

@maxharm: It is hard but feasible.

declan wrote:
grinvader wrote: not obvious yet experienced PARers know this: not a game with SRAM
Well i'm no experienced PARer, but, is the way you can tell the difference: games with SRAM have the picture pushed right up to the left of the lable, and the snes/ pal version lable on the right, and games without SRAM have the picture pushed slightly to the right and the snes/ pal version lable are on the left???
I made those assumptions, just taking a quick glance at my snes collection after i read your post.

I haven't checked that, would be fun if it was - nah, PARs have the nasty tendency of wiping clean the sram of the rear slot when it's not properly plugged in.
So better use a cart without, just in case. ^_^;

maxharm · Post by **maxharm** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:48 pm

I will try to do something but I must to know if the game has a special chip like Starfox or Mario RPG. Unfortunatly I don't find this information nowhere. How to know if the game run with a special chip. We know that the world is like Secret of mana , a little bit in 3d when we flight over the world , so there is surely a DSP1 or something like that.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:07 pm

It's not really hard to find a list of special chip games. If you search hard enough on this very board, you would find the answers you seek.

Anyways, neither Secret of Mana nor Seiken Densetsu 3 use special chips.

Johan_H · Post by **Johan_H** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:07 pm

maxharm wrote:How to know if the game run with a special chip.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:SNES ... bottom.jpg

Special chip games have those extra side connector thingies you see on the upper cart. (EDIT: Not always though, apparently)

maxharm wrote:We know that the world is like Secret of mana , a little bit in 3d when we flight over the world , so there is surely a DSP1 or something like that.

The "little bit in 3d" effect is called Mode 7 on the SNES I'm almost sure, I don't think it requires a special chip because I LttP doesn't use one.

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:38 pm

Johan_H wrote:
maxharm wrote:How to know if the game run with a special chip.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:SNES ... bottom.jpg

Special chip games have those extra side connector thingies you see on the upper cart.

Sometimes. Not always.
The DSP-1, at least, doesn't need them, and I've got a copy of Mario Kart for anyone that says otherwise.

The "little bit in 3d" effect is called Mode 7 on the SNES I'm almost sure, I don't think it requires a special chip because I LttP doesn't use one.

Indeed. Graphics mode 7 is an integral part of the SNES.
It's also used in Super Mario World, FZero, Castlevania 4, Illusion of Gaia, Contra 3, Hyperzone, RType 3, and Final Fantasy 6/3, to name a few coprocessor-free titles.

It became associated with coprocessors due to PilotWings and Super Mario Kart, both early high-profile titles which made extensive use of Mode 7, as well as using the DSP-1 for additional math power.

Anyways, Seiken Densetsu 3 doesn't have a coprocessor.

maxharm · Post by **maxharm** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:39 pm

Okay thanks for the answers !

declan · Post by **declan** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:50 pm

maxharm wrote:I will try to do something but I must to know if the game has a special chip like Starfox or Mario RPG. Unfortunatly I don't find this information nowhere. How to know if the game run with a special chip.

I don't know about ZSNES 1.51, but with SNES9X, you can just go to; 1) File, 2) ROM information. this will display the code held in the header of the rom. it sould also display the contence of a typical cart (of that game), e.g.; the amount of SRAM if any, CR2032 (Batt) or not, size of unheadered rom and last but not least, the presence of any enhancement chips.
.exit

creaothceann · Post by **creaothceann** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:00 pm

NSRT also displays that info.

maxharm · Post by **maxharm** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:46 pm

Okay thanks to you , this is a good information

maxharm · Post by **maxharm** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:26 pm

I got a last one question , which type of chip is use to contain the program.
The Mask Rom is which type of chip?

declan · Post by **declan** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:58 pm

The Mask Rom, will normally have a name marked on the PCB next to chip. If this fails.... NORMALLY (NOT ALWAYS) the Mask Rom will be the chip with the most pins, as long as there's no enhancement chip, they often have more pins than the Mask Rom.

And if you get really stuck, send us a pic of the PCB and we should be able to point it out to you.