Regen for Linux and Windows

SmartOne · Post by **SmartOne** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:05 am

kode54 wrote:I presume that Kega does the same thing when SuperHQ is enabled.

No, because WAV writing is 44100.

And then you can get into the argument: "Well the human ear can't hear anything different above blah blah blah."

tetsuo55 · Post by **tetsuo55** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 9:27 am

SmartOne wrote:
kode54 wrote:I presume that Kega does the same thing when SuperHQ is enabled.
No, because WAV writing is 44100.

And then you can get into the argument: "Well the human ear can't hear anything different above blah blah blah."

the difference between 44100 and 48000 is resolution, The samples are ever so slightly more detailed for the DAC, this however changes nothing about the frequencies we can here.

In theory the 44100 file could contain frequencies between 0 and 100000.

However due to some rule which i dont know the name off, You need double the herz for the audibile frequencies you want to restore accurately.

So that means 44100(samples per second) can restore up to 22050(sound frequency) accurately, and anything above that is a wild guess. 48000(samples per second) can restore up to 24000(sound frequency) and everything above that is a wild guess again.

--------

The second factor is speakers\headphones, these are also rated to a max frequency they can restore accurately.

When all factors come together. 48000 in regen, your soundcard/chip has a dac that can handle 48000, and your speakers are capable of restoring 24000 or higher, you will hear accurate representations of the frequencies above 22050.

Hearing is used loosely here. Although you might be unable to hear frequencies above a limit(different for every person) anything you cannot hear you can still feel. For low frequencies this is obvious but high frequencies do the same(the very thin hairs on the top of your ears will vibrate at frequencies well above hearing range)

So in short, if the Genesis actually created/processed sounds at 48000 then yes there would be extra accurate sound data when compared to 44100

King Of Chaos · Post by **King Of Chaos** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:51 pm

What I'm saying is, before they can be compared, they should be equally matched, especially for WAV dumping purposes.

Who knows, Kega might gain 48000Mz one day for SuperHQ mode.

ProtoKnux · Post by **ProtoKnux** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:57 pm

Heh, with old nvidia drivers it does this with the fonts:

Seems like I have to return back to new "anti-performance" drivers. Nvidia sucks.

I.S.T. · Post by **I.S.T.** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:07 pm

ProtoKnux wrote:Heh, with old nvidia drivers it does this with the fonts:

Seems like I have to return back to new "anti-performance" drivers. Nvidia sucks.

That's normal. It's caused by an nVidia driver bug.

ProtoKnux · Post by **ProtoKnux** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:16 pm

I.S.T. wrote:
ProtoKnux wrote:Heh, with old nvidia drivers it does this with the fonts:

Seems like I have to return back to new "anti-performance" drivers. Nvidia sucks.
That's normal. It's caused by an nVidia driver bug.

Yeah, I didn't read the entire thread. I know it's a driver bug. Do you, by any chance, know if there are drivers as good at performance as these? With the latest versions I'm having fps drops with some games.

I.S.T. · Post by **I.S.T.** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:00 pm

ProtoKnux wrote:
I.S.T. wrote:
ProtoKnux wrote:Heh, with old nvidia drivers it does this with the fonts:

Seems like I have to return back to new "anti-performance" drivers. Nvidia sucks.
That's normal. It's caused by an nVidia driver bug.
Yeah, I didn't read the entire thread. I know it's a driver bug. Do you, by any chance, know if there are drivers as good at performance as these? With the latest versions I'm having fps drops with some games.

That's par for the course when it comes to video drivers.

King Of Chaos · Post by **King Of Chaos** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:31 pm

I love the readme file.

Emulator messages appear corrupted. Would you please fix it?
------------------------------------------------------------

This is not a problem with Regen. This is a problem with NVidia Forceware 93.71 drivers.
You have four choices to fix this problem:

* Update the drivers.
* Run Regen using Superfast rendering mode.
* Set desktop depth to 16 BPP.
* Turn off the messages from the "Misc" menu.

neo_bahamut1985 · Post by **neo_bahamut1985** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:31 pm

King Of Chaos wrote:I love the readme file.

Emulator messages appear corrupted. Would you please fix it?
------------------------------------------------------------

This is not a problem with Regen. This is a problem with NVidia Forceware 93.71 drivers.
You have four choices to fix this problem:

* Update the drivers.
* Run Regen using Superfast rendering mode.
* Set desktop depth to 16 BPP.
* Turn off the messages from the "Misc" menu.

Something seems a little odd about that last step....

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:32 pm

neo_bahamut1985 wrote:
King Of Chaos wrote:I love the readme file.

Emulator messages appear corrupted. Would you please fix it?
------------------------------------------------------------

This is not a problem with Regen. This is a problem with NVidia Forceware 93.71 drivers.
You have four choices to fix this problem:

* Update the drivers.
* Run Regen using Superfast rendering mode.
* Set desktop depth to 16 BPP.
* Turn off the messages from the "Misc" menu.
Something seems a little odd about that last step....

That's because it's one of 4 options, not one of 4 steps. And it WILL solve the problem of corrupted messages.

neo_bahamut1985 · Post by **neo_bahamut1985** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:37 pm

Sure, updating drivers is important and all, but why does it ask to update the drivers if all iyou need to do is to disable the messages? Wouldn't it make more sense to just write " Turn off the messages from the 'Misc' menu" instead of going through these other steps?

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:45 pm

neo_bahamut1985 wrote:Sure, updating drivers is important and all, but why does it ask to update the drivers if all iyou need to do is to disable the messages? Wouldn't it make more sense to just write " Turn off the messages from the 'Misc' menu" instead of going through these other steps?

BECAUSE THEY AREN'T SEQUENTIAL STEPS, YOU IDIOT! THEY ARE INDEPENDENT OPTIONS AND YOU CAN DO ANY ONE OF THE FOUR TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

ProtoKnux · Post by **ProtoKnux** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 9:14 pm

Hey guys, I didn't read the goddamn readme file, sorry about that, my stupidity can be sometimes amusing. Anyway, there are problems with 94.24 too. Just instead of adding "This is a problem with NVidia Forceware 93.71 drivers." put something like "This is a problem with NVidia Forceware old drivers.". Anyway I don't need to update them, just superfast rendering and fuck it.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 9:34 pm

Bah, now I have to downgrade some comps because of this? Oh well, at least I keep older revisions around.

King Of Chaos · Post by **King Of Chaos** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:13 pm

Or the messages system could be redone how to how Kega Fusion probably does it. Seems to me it doesn't have problems/issues with nVidia drivers.

kode54 · Post by **kode54** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:55 pm

SmartOne wrote:
kode54 wrote:I presume that Kega does the same thing when SuperHQ is enabled.
No, because WAV writing is 44100.

And then you can get into the argument: "Well the human ear can't hear anything different above blah blah blah."

I take it you've never heard of resampling. Game_Music_Emu's GYM/VGM players oversample the FM chip emulator and downsample to the chosen output sample rate.

realnabarl · Post by **realnabarl** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:40 am

Can I report bugs here?

Maybe a known bug of Gens but also found in Regen.
System-> Redifine Keys-> Press Redifine button
then the message will tell me to press keys to define, but at this time if I click anywhere out of the window, the program will lock up and raise CPU utilization to max.

Windows XP SP2.

---

Anyway, thank you for the program.

King Of Chaos · Post by **King Of Chaos** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:50 am

Yep, that's a confirmed bug on Windows XP and Vista.

SmartOne · Post by **SmartOne** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:38 am

kode54 wrote:I take it you've never heard of resampling. Game_Music_Emu's GYM/VGM players oversample the FM chip emulator and downsample to the chosen output sample rate.

Yes, I've "heard" of resampling.

I'm just not too keen on the specifics of how it affects the sound and the various methods of resampling. Bigger is better, generally...

Downsampling to 44100 from some astronomical rate will always be worse than 48000, no?

Thank you tetsuo55 for all the tasty information! mmmm

kode54 · Post by **kode54** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:18 am

SmartOne wrote:Downsampling to 44100 from some astronomical rate will always be worse than 48000, no?

Not noticeably, since most of the information discarded would be inaudible frequencies. Besides, the original sample rate is not really astronomical, more like 53KHz.

SmartOne · Post by **SmartOne** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:21 am

Over exaggeration can be mildy funny if you have a good sense of humor. If not "funny," how about "enjoyable;" liven up a conversation possibly.

Even if it's inaudible, the resulting downsample to 44100 instead of 48000 would still be worse quality. Preservation. Whatever.

King Of Chaos · Post by **King Of Chaos** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:19 pm

Still, I'd add it for SuperHQ mode just to test/record samples against Kega.

SmartOne · Post by **SmartOne** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:51 pm

Yeah, but it doesn't seem like Kega is changing anytime soon.

Er, unless you are talking about 44100 for Regen. Gotcha.

tetsuo55 · Post by **tetsuo55** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:58 pm

kode54 wrote:
SmartOne wrote:Downsampling to 44100 from some astronomical rate will always be worse than 48000, no?
Not noticeably, since most of the information discarded would be inaudible frequencies. Besides, the original sample rate is not really astronomical, more like 53KHz.

Oversampling reduces the number of rounding artifacts when going from 1 samplerate to another, it does not add or delete anything. Unless you go below the original samplerate.

kode54 is right, the difference between 44100 and 48000 would be near zero if the original audiorate is 44100 or lower (and even if it isnt you need very good hearing and speakers and dacs to hear/feel the extra information which most people do not)

On that note.
1. What is the internal sample rate for the Genesis sound system? how about the DAC's?
2. How is the audio stored on the roms? snes often used samples and those had a very low hz, so no matter how good the rest of the system is the sound wont get any better.

---
did you know that at sea level. frequencies can range from 0hz to 3ghz.
You would need a 6ghz samplerate to reproduce that accurately (higher than 3ghz is not possible due to the distance between the atoms that make up the air)
You would also need a microphone and speakers capable of recording/playing those frequencies.

Some people would argue though, that most sounds never exceed 100mhz(the exception being lightning)

Here is a link to a study:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersonic_effect

This study basically proves that frequencies beyond the hearing range +/-20 to +/- 20000 hz do get attention from the brain.

The lack of samplerate, dacs and speakers means that audio-hardware can never beat an unplugged mini concert.

King Of Chaos · Post by **King Of Chaos** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:52 pm

SmartOne wrote:Yeah, but it doesn't seem like Kega is changing anytime soon.

Er, unless you are talking about 44100 for Regen. Gotcha.

Well, I don't think Steve Snake would ever add 48000Mz to Kega really. And yes, I meant 44100Mz for Regen's SuperHQ just for the sake of accurate comparison to Kega (and for recordings of the two to compare).

P.S. Speaking of Steve Snake, he recently joined the SpritesMind forums and posted in the YM2612 findings discussion over there.