State of sound in Linux not so sorry after all

[Nach]

http://www.opensound.com/wiki/index.php ... Sv4#Phonon

Also see some comments here: http://insanecoding.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... ion-4.html

[jdratlif]

The first one I've seen. No such option in my KDE4 when OSS was present.

Your blog entry looks more promising. I will look into that when I have a moment, but it sounds like that's using ALSA emulation over OSS, which would be fine, but I thought KDE4 could go native. You're using KDE4, right? Is OSS4 working native for you?

[Nach]

I'm not using KDE4. I'm waiting for it to be ready.

[adventure_of_link]

I'm not using KDE4. I'm waiting for it to be ready.

Tell me about it. All it's doing ATM is lagging my system, HORRIBLY.

what's sad is that using KDE4, Snes9x GTK gets ~20-30 FPS in KDE4, and in Fluxbox it'll run almost normally.

Fail. EPIC fail. It's bad enough Linux likes to lag like crazy on sites like saturnfans.com and YouTube, we don't need to make it any worse by letting KDE lag the system as well.

[jdratlif]

KDE4 works great for me and has for quite some time now. With the 4.2.4 release, even the tray works (the only remaining issue that affected me).

I decided to reinstall to see if I could get OSS to work. There must be some dependency that didn't pull in OSS last time, cause KDE finds it now. Both mplayer and vlc (the only things I've tested so far) work. kmix doesn't seem to like OSS4, so I have to use ossxmix which I don't like, but I'll get over it.

We'll see how things go for now. I think I'll go try zsnes and see if I get good sound without needing to switch to libao.

I never liked kde3 much. That always killed my system. KDE4 has been a huge improvement imo. BTW: when's the last time either of you tried KDE4?

There is some issue with tightvnc. I can't start a kde4 session inside it for some reason. But I don't usually want that anyway since it would cause the vnc to slow down from all the unnecessary graphics. twm is preferable most of the time for me, though I'm thinking of installing Xfce or trying OpenBox.

edit: The scratchy sound I got with ALSA in zsnes is gone now that I have OSS. libao did work for me, but it looks like I no longer need it.

[adept]

What worries me most is that Pulseaudio developers seem to not care about intolerable latency in games. They like to copy other operating system features, but do not bother with performance parity - Windows 7 has volume control per application without any extra lag - why is that so impossible for ALSA+Pulseaudio? Rewrite the fucking thing if necessary, because latency should be much higher priority than networked audio... until then Pulseaudio remains the same crap as Arts for me and one volume control knob is not an innovation but insanity!

[jdratlif]

OSS is supposed to support per application volume controls. IMO, this was the biggest improvement of Vista over XP. When an app starts using the vmix output, ossxmix changes the name of pcm8 9 10 or 11 to the application, which suggests I can already control volume levels on an application basis. I have not yet tried this.

@aol: youtube works fine for me. KDE4 + Firefox + adobe flash 9 plugin + OSS4.1.

I don't use Snes9x. It would only be worthwhile for me in Linux if geiger's debugger were ported. I hope when the Qt GUI for Zsnes comes in, we'll have a nice cross-platform debugger.

Debugging emulators are one of the only apps I still have to use Windows for. FCEUX works to a degree in Wine, but it crashes a lot.

[Deathlike2]

I don't use Snes9x. It would only be worthwhile for me in Linux if geiger's debugger were ported. I hope when the Qt GUI for Zsnes comes in, we'll have a nice cross-platform debugger.

Debugging emulators are one of the only apps I still have to use Windows for. FCEUX works to a degree in Wine, but it crashes a lot.

Snes9x would probably need major changes to even attempt to update the version with the debugger.... it is based off of 1.43 after all IIRC.

[Nach]

so I have to use ossxmix which I don't like, but I'll get over it.

I'm working on an ossxmix/kmix replacements for OSSv4. Want to pitch in?

BTW: when's the last time either of you tried KDE4?

I have a virtual machine with KDE 4 installed, I retry it every week. Still can't stand it.

OSS is supposed to support per application volume controls. IMO, this was the biggest improvement of Vista over XP. When an app starts using the vmix output, ossxmix changes the name of pcm8 9 10 or 11 to the application, which suggests I can already control volume levels on an application basis. I have not yet tried this.

I've tried it, works marvelously.

[Panzer88]

thanks for the work on that Nach, I'm going to try KDE4 again at the end of the month when the 4.3 series comes out, it'll probably need a few bugfixes but that's alright, speed isn't an issue for me with this laptop, even with kde4's slowness it still preforms at a good speed.

[jdratlif]

so I have to use ossxmix which I don't like, but I'll get over it.

I'm working on an ossxmix/kmix replacements for OSSv4. Want to pitch in?

What's yours going to do differently? I would like kmix fine if it had an OSS4 backend. ossxmix has a dozen controls I don't understand, but don't seem to directly affect my speaker volume. Maybe if I were more of an audiophile.

I want long sliders and more precise control. I don't want controls that I'm not using to be displayed (it should be configurable). It should add controls dynamically when an app takes over a vmix slot. It should remember my volume levels between sessions.

BTW: when's the last time either of you tried KDE4?

I have a virtual machine with KDE 4 installed, I retry it every week. Still can't stand it.

Any specific complaints or just a general feeling?

My old machine would be completely taxed running KDE3, but had no problems running KDE4. I also like plasmoids and the new KDE menu. I liked ktorrent better than Azureus 3, but vuze 4 I think does fine. Konversation was missed until I found ChatZilla.

I would prefer the favorites menu be dynamically generated like in windows based on usage, but that's a minor complaint.

I also like the plugged media thing on the taskbar, though I realize KDE3 had equivalent functionality. I don't like desktop clutter.

I think KDE4 and Qt4 looks better. Linux desktops are often ugly. KDE3 was better than Gnome, but not much imo. I thought they were both ugly.

I've been using KDE4 since the 4.1 series hit last July. With each new release it's been getting better and better. There were several minor issues (kdm crashing, nepomuk crashing, system tray acting weird, desktop crashing, plasmoids crashing), but with 4.2.4, all those have been resolved.

thanks for the work on that Nach, I'm going to try KDE4 again at the end of the month when the 4.3 series comes out, it'll probably need a few bugfixes but that's alright, speed isn't an issue for me with this laptop, even with kde4's slowness it still preforms at a good speed.

I have never experienced this slowness you refer to. I was using 4.1 on my 7 year old P4/1 GB RAM and it worked great. Much better than KDE3. Probably not quite as fast as Xfce, but it's been a long time since my switch.

[Nach]

so I have to use ossxmix which I don't like, but I'll get over it.

I'm working on an ossxmix/kmix replacements for OSSv4. Want to pitch in?

What's yours going to do differently? I would like kmix fine if it had an OSS4 backend. ossxmix has a dozen controls I don't understand, but don't seem to directly affect my speaker volume. Maybe if I were more of an audiophile.

I'm gearing it towards what I think is normal usage.
Icon on tray, you click on it and can adjust master volume.
Double click, and it pop ups a menu which allows you to adjust per application volume control.
Then perhaps in there, offer another button to bring up all the other crazy settings.

BTW: when's the last time either of you tried KDE4?

I have a virtual machine with KDE 4 installed, I retry it every week. Still can't stand it.

Any specific complaints or just a general feeling?

Many. Too many to enumerate here.

However a couple off the bat:
No right click on icons on plasma anymore for setting up, or for adding places to file menu.

I don't like Kickoff, and the classic menu at the moment is still less than functional compared to 3.5, KDE I'm told should be fixing that one over the next month though.

Oxygen looks really bad for basic actions in programs (intentionally). So If I go to choose something else, you lose icons all over, since KDE can't figure out to use icons from one scheme primarily, and from another if certain icons are missing.

Konsole became much more annoying. Have to go tweak it to go enable tab support. And even then, the tabs are ridiculous, they're huge unless you have many open. If you're using your mouse to navigate between them, you now have to go across the whole screen, instead of a few clicks right next to each other.

Devices menu can no longer be laid out on a taskbar. Only works via popup.

Generally everywhere more clicks are required to do the simplest things. I don't like feeling I'm fighting the interface to do anything.

My old machine would be completely taxed running KDE3

I never had this problem once I got 256MB of RAM. But I do prefer the lighter load of Qt 4 vs. Qt3.

I also like plasmoids and the new KDE menu.

I couldn't care for desktop widgets in the slightest. Complete waste of time in my opinion.

I liked ktorrent better than Azureus 3, but vuze 4 I think does fine.

I don't care for any of those. qBittorrent is rather nice (although I wish it had a couple more features that the programs you listed have).

Konversation was missed until I found ChatZilla.

Konversation is back, now also with 3 patches from me

I would prefer the favorites menu be dynamically generated like in windows based on usage, but that's a minor complaint.

That's how KDE 3 worked.

I also like the plugged media thing on the taskbar, though I realize KDE3 had equivalent functionality. I don't like desktop clutter.

KDE3's was better.

I think KDE4 and Qt4 looks better. Linux desktops are often ugly. KDE3 was better than Gnome, but not much imo. I thought they were both ugly.

I prefer Qt4 over Qt3. However I prefer functionality over beauty. KDE 4 seems to do too much IMO to hide functionality, if it downright doesn't lack it in the first place.

I've been using KDE4 since the 4.1 series hit last July. With each new release it's been getting better and better.

Yes it is. They finally got a tree back in their control panel. Although the head of KDE is very annoyed about it, his mentality really belongs with GNOME.

There were several minor issues (kdm crashing, nepomuk crashing, system tray acting weird, desktop crashing, plasmoids crashing), but with 4.2.4, all those have been resolved.

Nope. I get Plasma crashing all the time in my tests.

[Panzer88]

thanks for the work on that Nach, I'm going to try KDE4 again at the end of the month when the 4.3 series comes out, it'll probably need a few bugfixes but that's alright, speed isn't an issue for me with this laptop, even with kde4's slowness it still preforms at a good speed.

I have never experienced this slowness you refer to. I was using 4.1 on my 7 year old P4/1 GB RAM and it worked great. Much better than KDE3. Probably not quite as fast as Xfce, but it's been a long time since my switch.

most people equate it to roughly the load of a minimal windows vista install. I'm not complaining, it's just one of the things that slows a lot of people down from using it.

[grinvader]

off the bat

YES SIR !!

I didn't get my beauty sleep.

[jdratlif]

most people equate it to roughly the load of a minimal windows vista install. I'm not complaining, it's just one of the things that slows a lot of people down from using it.

Vista I do notice. I had to upgrade my old laptop from 1 to 2 GB RAM or it would be very slow. My new laptop has 4 GB, as does my new box.

I would never have tried Vista on my old machine, but KDE4 ran quite well. Of course, I am talking about Home Premium. I wonder if basic (sans Aero) would've given me a similar result. I've never tried the basic edition.

[Panzer88]

probably pretty similiar, windows aero = kde 4 compositing effects, compiz, etc.