Lag when emulating ROMS

[Molecular]

Hey guys!

I'm having a problem where I experience lag in a game I'm trying to emulate. The game is E.V.O - Search for Eden (If that matters). I'm running a fairly powerful computer that can run most new games on full graphics with above 60 fps, so I do not think it is my computer (although of course it could be).

When lag occurs, the game basically just slows down to around half of its speed, and frames are being played much slower. Checking the FPS however, it says 60/60.
If I press the 'fast forward' button everything zoom away incredibly fast as usual. The problem occurs only when there's multiple enemies onscreen at the same time, especially if the enemies are playing any 'complicated' animations. In other words, it really just looks like classical fps drop caused by too much happening at the same time, but meanwhile zsnes is taking nearly nothing out of my total memory or computing power. I tried with another emulator as well and got pretty much the same thing.

Is it the ROM?

[Agozer]

Have you considered the possibility that the game might lag on the actual console? ZSNES is emulating the SNES, and this includes many of the console's problems --- such as in-game slowdown. It doesn't matter how fast your PC supposedly is.

The FPS counter displays the console's (or in actuality, the TV's) vertical interrupts per second (tied to existing television standards per region -- 60 for NTSC, 50 for PAL), not the game's own internal framerate. If the FPS counter shows less that 60 for NTSC, then you'll know that the emulator itself is dropping frames, thus lagging.

Very few games were ever coded to run at full 60 frames per second internally.

[Molecular]

I was thinking that might have been the problem since this DOES happen in snes games. I just always figured that the emulator would... I don't know, circumvent these problems somehow, given that they have theoretically infinite computing power in comparison with the snes.

At least this puts my mind at rest. Thanks.

[paulguy]

Doing that would screw up timing for a lot of games, and you'd get glitches or crashing. However, would adjusting the percent to execute parameter do what I expect and maybe make a game run better at the risk of messing up the timing?

[grinvader]

would adjusting the percent to execute parameter do what I expect and maybe make a game run better at the risk of messing up the timing?

"yea"

[Gil_Hamilton]

As long as this is back up...

Very few games were ever coded to run at full 60 frames per second internally.

My understanding is that this is true for modern games, but very much NOT true for classic systems like the SNES.


It's one of those things that's been given up as games have gotten "better", along with near-zero lag, a willingness to experiment instead of cloning a bullet list, and not forcing a game out in an embarrassingly unpolished and half-completed state because the release schedule demands it.

[paulguy]

Not to say there wasn't a crap-ton of rushed out garbage in the past trying to cash in on the current genre (mostly platformers at the time). But yeah, even a lot of the bad games ran at full 60 FPS, outside of really low cost computers. Only the crappiest of crap games ran slower than 60 FPS and often had just as unresponsive input to match, although there were some that were really just pushing the hardware and slowed down at points, but these ones that are done well almost never felt unresponsive, and the slowdown is probably often strategic, probably giving a bit of suspense to the swarms of enemies on screen, rather than just being blown to bits right away.

[Gil_Hamilton]

Not to say there wasn't a crap-ton of rushed out garbage in the past trying to cash in on the current genre (mostly platformers at the time).

Or scrolling shooters.

But you didn't see any high-profile releases that were literally the same game with new faces in it, or even close. Even friggin' Megaman, for all the shit it took, shook things up each time around in SOME way.

But yeah, even a lot of the bad games ran at full 60 FPS, outside of really low cost computers. Only the crappiest of crap games ran slower than 60 FPS and often had just as unresponsive input to match, although there were some that were really just pushing the hardware and slowed down at points, but these ones that are done well almost never felt unresponsive, and the slowdown is probably often strategic, probably giving a bit of suspense to the swarms of enemies on screen, rather than just being blown to bits right away.

To be fair, a lot of it was because it was easier to make the game run at 60Hz than it was to make one NOT run at 60Hz.
Use VSync for your timer, and let the interrupt guide you.
The GPU was always going to take a given amount of time to draw a frame, no matter how complex that frame was.

Nowadays, games aren't coded that close to the hardware, and gunning for 30 FPS gives you twice as much time to get your frame drawn, so you can make prettier/less optimized games.

[grinvader]

Even friggin' Megaman, for all the shit it took, shook things up each time around in SOME way.

Hmm, did he now ? I wonder...

[Gil_Hamilton]

Even friggin' Megaman, for all the shit it took, shook things up each time around in SOME way.

Hmm, did he now ? I wonder...

And yet each game tweaks things a good bit.
Megaman 4: Charge shot, second final castle.
Megaman 5: Beat! ... okay, this one's kinda weak sauce. It's mostly the polish that Megaman 3 SHOULD have had(I'm pretty sure MM3 was forced out before it was considered ready).
Megaman 6: powered armor, a jetpack, stages with multiple end points(and people bitched because they changed how Rush worked) Also, you get to kill Mazinger Z like the Astroboy wannabe you are.

As I said, each game changed things up somewhere. And you know as well as I that those stages are all radically different.
It's a testament to the determination of the editor that he made it work. I've watched that video, and read the comments. He exploits every single chance he has to decouple the games for even a single frame.

If you want to make the case, there's better ways.
Like the leaf shield/skull shield/power stone(shield)/plant shield/junk shield. Though they still all behave a bit differently from each other.

Or we can go the other way and prove Super Mario Brothers, SMB2, and SMB3 are all the same game.

[odditude]

speaking of being rushed out the door, mm6 takes the cake. every weapon uses the p-shooter sound effect!

i definitely like it the least out of the nes games, although the original and its "oh, you mean those foot holders should actually take you somewhere instead of randomly dumping you in the spikes and sending you halfway back through the level?" comes close.

mm4 is another odd duck, at least in terms of the boss intros and e-tank usage... s l o w e s t m e t e r f i l l e v e r . i don't know if the "second castle" thing should really be considered new, since 3 did have the Doc Robot boards.

star crash is the shield of 5, although power stone is quite possibly the most obnoxious-to-use weapon in the series.

beat was a decent reward for honing your platforming skills.

more tweaks:
mm4: discoverable mm2-style items alongside rush
mm5: a charge shot that isn't kinda weaksauce, a throwable shield that uses different amounts of energy depending on whether it hits defensively or offensively (the aforementioned star crash)

[Rashidi]

like the Astroboy wannabe you are.

I knew there must be something between megaman & astroboy ...

[Gil_Hamilton]

like the Astroboy wannabe you are.

I knew there must be something between megaman & astroboy ...

My understanding is Megaman began development AS an Astroboy game(Tetsuwan Atom, whatever, shut up), and when Capcom couldn't get the license it got overhauled.

speaking of being rushed out the door, mm6 takes the cake. every weapon uses the p-shooter sound effect!

I actually never noticed that!
MM3 just feels less polished than the rest of the series to me. The title music also implies an intro sequence that isn't there, like MM2, 4, 5, and 6 had, and I'm reasonably sure Rush Jet was supposed to have a forced forward velocity like the MM2 Jet Sled and MM4+ Rush Jet.

mm4 is another odd duck, at least in terms of the boss intros and e-tank usage... s l o w e s t m e t e r f i l l e v e r . i don't know if the "second castle" thing should really be considered new, since 3 did have the Doc Robot boards.

I thought about that. I think Doc Robot stages are actually distinctly different from Fake Evil Genius Castle. They introduce the extended end game, but it's not yet formalized into a second fortress.

And really, there's a style there I like. They should do it again. At least Megaman X reused the "same stage, but different" mechanic, albeit in a vastly different way(and again, a way that should be done again).

star crash is the shield of 5, although power stone is quite possibly the most obnoxious-to-use weapon in the series.

I forgot about Star Man. MM5 is the MM I forget the most of.
I just remember Gravity Man, because he makes me want to play Metal Storm instead.

And personally, I don't see Power Stone as difficult to use. Just get close before you set it off(probably why I think of it as a shield weapon).

more tweaks:
mm4: discoverable mm2-style items alongside rush

Super Arrow and Batman Grappling Hook WERE collectable, weren't they? I'd forgotten that too.

...

I should just sit down and play through the whole hexology again, shouldn't I?

[odditude]

MM3 just feels less polished than the rest of the series to me. The title music also implies an intro sequence that isn't there, like MM2, 4, 5, and 6 had, and I'm reasonably sure Rush Jet was supposed to have a forced forward velocity like the MM2 Jet Sled and MM4+ Rush Jet.

agreed. there's also the controller 2 tricks which are quite conceivably dev test holdovers, and the early-Rush glitch (although that might have never been caught even with a longer testing period).

Super Arrow and Batman Grappling Hook WERE collectable, weren't they? I'd forgotten that too.

super arrow is in 5 (beat Star Man). the other 4 item was a baloonified Item-1. however, this commend did make me remember that duh, the magnet beam was a pickup in 1 (although it was mandatory, unlike the 4 pickups).

I should just sit down and play through the whole hexology again, shouldn't I?

of course!

[Rashidi]

and regarding X, why can't he do the sliding-dash like his predecessor ?

[Gil_Hamilton]

and regarding X, why can't he do the sliding-dash like his predecessor ?

Because his leg articulation was damaged.

At least, that's what happened in my personal Megaman->MMX transitional fanfic!

[odditude]

and regarding X, why can't he do the sliding-dash like his predecessor ?

Because his leg articulation was damaged.

At least, that's what happened in my personal Megaman->MMX transitional fanfic!

JUMP JUMP SLIDE SLIDE

[Gil_Hamilton]

and regarding X, why can't he do the sliding-dash like his predecessor ?

Because his leg articulation was damaged.

At least, that's what happened in my personal Megaman->MMX transitional fanfic!

JUMP JUMP SLIDE SLIDE

Well, what do you THINK that does to robohips?