What IDE is zsnes made in?

Post by **Nach** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:40 am

I don't know about you, but I find a file nearing 100 functions in it to take quite a while to compile, I don't think I'd want to recompile 600 functions every time I just modified one or two of them.

Post by **grinvader** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:08 am

Someone's got a point here...

Nightcrawler · Post by **Nightcrawler** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:13 pm

funkyass wrote:600 functions in one file, or 600 functions in 600 files.

same crap. different piles.

Right.. what's the difference if you have 600 functions in one file or 600 different files?

jdratlif · Post by **jdratlif** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:51 pm

Nightcrawler wrote:
funkyass wrote:600 functions in one file, or 600 functions in 600 files.

same crap. different piles.
Right.. what's the difference if you have 600 functions in one file or 600 different files?

Well, there's recompile time, like Nach mentioned.

And I would image few people have 600 functions that are all so closely related that they need to be in the same file. At the same time however, it's just as likely you wouldn't need 600 separate files either. But Maybe 12 files of 50 functions...

Nightcrawler · Post by **Nightcrawler** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:30 pm

Sure, those are valid points. My point is that collapsable code can be useful. That's directed to the people in here who thought it was completely unnecessary and stupid.

And they speak of object oriented programming. What if you don't program that way. Sometimes a modular approach is much more efficient.

jdratlif · Post by **jdratlif** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:09 pm

Nightcrawler wrote:Sure, those are valid points. My point is that collapsable code can be useful. That's directed to the people in here who thought it was completely unnecessary and stupid.

And they speak of object oriented programming. What if you don't program that way. Sometimes a modular approach is much more efficient.

No arguments here. It seems like a good thing to me.

Esturk · Post by **Esturk** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 7:48 pm

It's almost too bad Zsnes is coded in assembler.. I mean if it's so damn hard to make a blinking cursor. Me wonders how hard the actual emulator is to code. I hope that someday Zsnes can be coded with a more easy language. Good luck.

Nightcrawler · Post by **Nightcrawler** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:09 pm

I don't think being an assembly program in itself is what makes ZSNES a pain to edit. I have worked with larger assembly programs than ZSNES before with more ease. I think the problem comes from lack of organization and commenting which is important to maintain an assembly program of that size.

For someone unfamiliar with the ZSNES source, it's a real pain to quickly go in and find what you need.

Although assembly was a good idea at ZSNES's conception, it's becomming more and more of a hinderance and less of a good idea. The speed advantage of assembly is needed by less and less people now a days as compared to the time ZSNES was created.

ZSNES is in need of a rewrite in a more organized and easily maintanable fashion. Of course that's easier said then done as it would be a monumental task to recode ZSNES. I'm afraid though, when Pagefault quits no one is going to really do much with ZSNES. There are plenty of contributers and side coders of course, but no one really is familiar with the meat and potatoes of the ZSNES source and it would be a royal pain to join on as a main coder to work on such things as the timing engine etc in it's current state being unfamiliar with things.

jdratlif · Post by **jdratlif** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:58 pm

Nightcrawler wrote:I don't think being an assembly program in itself is what makes ZSNES a pain to edit. I have worked with larger assembly programs than ZSNES before with more ease. I think the problem comes from lack of organization and commenting which is important to maintain an assembly program of that size.

For someone unfamiliar with the ZSNES source, it's a real pain to quickly go in and find what you need.

Although assembly was a good idea at ZSNES's conception, it's becomming more and more of a hinderance and less of a good idea. The speed advantage of assembly is needed by less and less people now a days as compared to the time ZSNES was created.

ZSNES is in need of a rewrite in a more organized and easily maintanable fashion. Of course that's easier said then done as it would be a monumental task to recode ZSNES. I'm afraid though, when Pagefault quits no one is going to really do much with ZSNES. There are plenty of contributers and side coders of course, but no one really is familiar with the meat and potatoes of the ZSNES source and it would be a royal pain to join on as a main coder to work on such things as the timing engine etc in it's current state being unfamiliar with things.

I would agree with this assessment. It took me about 20 minutes to make the changes I wanted (the game clock in 12 hour format), but three hours of looking through the source to find where to make those changes.

Granted, I have never programmed in x86 assembly before, but I am familiar with sparc and 68k. I think if there were more comments explaining parts of the source I had to guess at, it would have taken much less time.

Post by **Nach** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 10:47 pm

Nightcrawler wrote:I'm afraid though, when Pagefault quits no one is going to really do much with ZSNES.

When?

Unless you know something I don't...
Would be nice if someone could get him motivated again.

Nightcrawler · Post by **Nightcrawler** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 2:26 pm

Nach wrote:
Nightcrawler wrote:I'm afraid though, when Pagefault quits no one is going to really do much with ZSNES.
When?

Unless you know something I don't...
Would be nice if someone could get him motivated again.

I don't have any secret information, but the signs are all there. Pagefault is showing alot of disinterest and lack of motivation in ZSNES just from some of his posts on this board and lack of doing much with ZSNES lately. He doesn't want to fix bugs anymore. There's been a sprite priority problem for the past few years now. Things like that, and of course SDD1 support which was 'promised' to be in ZSNES a long time ago. A few of his posts suggested work arounds with no hint of any intentions of ever fixing the problems in question. He's not responding like he used to. He's showing a different attitude.

The point is, he's showing all the signs of permanantly losing motivation.
I don't think he'll call it quits yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did in the future. Even if he doesn't, I wouldn't expect any significant change in ZSNES anymore unless he gets a change of attitude and motivation about his project.

In fact, he almost seems to imply that when the eventual 1.40 official version is released, there seems to be almost nothing planned beyond that. He seems to talk about it as if it's the end of the line.

But I hate to start rumors about crap that isn't true, so I must state that this is absolutely nothing but my own personal opinion.

Post by **Nach** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 2:45 pm

As I set before, to me it doesn't seem to be a matter of when

Nightcrawler · Post by **Nightcrawler** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:28 pm

Well, he wont' be working on it forever you know even if he was motivated.

Post by **Nach** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:58 pm

He isn't working on it at all

Nightcrawler · Post by **Nightcrawler** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:51 pm

Yeah, but at least he hasn't officially quit yet. People often times take long breaks from their hobbies. That doesn't mean they've given them up though.

Misogynist · Post by **Misogynist** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 7:17 pm

Nightcrawler wrote:Right.. what's the difference if you have 600 functions in one file or 600 different files?

If you have to ask this question, you haven't thought through and logically organized your code enough. Your source code's filesystem structure should reflect how your code is organized.

Post by **_Demo_** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:03 am

The zsnes IDE were dos edit then win9x edit (the one with F8 to switch apps) and the command prompt

_Demo_

Mexandrew · Post by **Mexandrew** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:08 am

w00t? _Demo_ finally came! Hurray!

I am sad because pagefault isn't working on zsnes lately. Another one of my heroes is gone. *sobbing*

Now there is only Nach, ipher, and _Demo_

MaxSt · Post by **MaxSt** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 9:51 am

mexandrew wrote: I am sad because pagefault isn't working on zsnes lately. Another one of my heroes is gone.

Look: http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/zsnes

Nightcrawler · Post by **Nightcrawler** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:23 pm

Misogynist wrote:
Nightcrawler wrote:Right.. what's the difference if you have 600 functions in one file or 600 different files?
If you have to ask this question, you haven't thought through and logically organized your code enough. Your source code's filesystem structure should reflect how your code is organized.

No.. the point is organizing such a large program is difficult no matter what you choose.

Look at ZSNES for a good example.