Jail for cruelty on videogame characters

MisterJones · Post by **MisterJones** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:55 pm

Johan_Hanberg wrote:
Mark57Raider wrote:I can see why the Nazi sign would be banned in Germany though
Why? People don't become nazis by looking at a swastika. At least not more in Germany than anywhere else.

It's has to do more with being somewhat offensive, what with all germans being automatically associated with nazis and such for some time.

corronchilejano · Post by **corronchilejano** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:48 pm

It´s like the old dilemma, "do guns kill people?"... except videogames CANNOT kill somebody... maybe before when there where videogame carts and you could hit someone a lot of times in the head, but cd's and dvd´s simply don´t make the cut... well, maybe they cut, but you get the idea.

Joe Camacho · Post by **Joe Camacho** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:08 pm

Corronchilejano wrote:It´s like the old dilemma, "do guns kill people?"... except videogames CANNOT kill somebody... maybe before when there where videogame carts and you could hit someone a lot of times in the head, but cd's and dvd´s simply don´t make the cut... well, maybe they cut, but you get the idea.

No. This is related to the influence that outside sources can cause one a person's mind, just like Alcohol, Drugs, Pornography, Violent Movies etc.

Denying the influence that videogames cause on people, specially kids, is as stupid as blaming videogames as the sole cause of their conduct.

Still, I think this law is pretty farfetched, not only in context, but in enforcement.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:25 pm

Joe Camacho wrote:
Corronchilejano wrote:It´s like the old dilemma, "do guns kill people?"... except videogames CANNOT kill somebody... maybe before when there where videogame carts and you could hit someone a lot of times in the head, but cd's and dvd´s simply don´t make the cut... well, maybe they cut, but you get the idea.
No. This is related to the influence that outside sources can cause one a person's mind, just like Alcohol, Drugs, Pornography, Violent Movies etc.

Denying the influence that videogames cause on people, specially kids, is as stupid as blaming videogames as the sole cause of their conduct.

Still, I think this law is pretty farfetched, not only in context, but in enforcement.

"Oh noes, someone uploaded Wolfenstein to my computer. I am screwed!"

Something tells me stupidity is at work.

Firon · Post by **Firon** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:46 pm

Videogames don't turn you into a murderer. To actually turn into a murderer, you have to already be totally fucked in the head, in which case videogames still aren't to blame.

Joe Camacho · Post by **Joe Camacho** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:27 pm

Deathlike2 wrote:
Joe Camacho wrote:
Corronchilejano wrote:It´s like the old dilemma, "do guns kill people?"... except videogames CANNOT kill somebody... maybe before when there where videogame carts and you could hit someone a lot of times in the head, but cd's and dvd´s simply don´t make the cut... well, maybe they cut, but you get the idea.
No. This is related to the influence that outside sources can cause one a person's mind, just like Alcohol, Drugs, Pornography, Violent Movies etc.

Denying the influence that videogames cause on people, specially kids, is as stupid as blaming videogames as the sole cause of their conduct.

Still, I think this law is pretty farfetched, not only in context, but in enforcement.
"Oh noes, someone uploaded Wolfenstein to my computer. I am screwed!"

Something tells me stupidity is at work.

As long as you don't play it, according to the article, you are in the safe zone. Which makes things even more complicated.

Hell, how are you going to prove that someone is not only playing, but they are shooting "humans", and not only that, that they are "realistic" enough?

Pretty farfetched if you ask me, I would find an age limit to the access of videogames a lot more "realistic" legal solution than fines and prison for those who "kill" realistic human models.

Firon wrote:Videogames don't turn you into a murderer. To actually turn into a murderer, you have to already be totally fucked in the head, in which case videogames still aren't to blame.

Sure, because everyone who is/was a murderer was "born" that way. Like I say, denying the influence that media has over people is AS stupid as blaming them for ALL of their conduct.

sweener2001 · Post by **sweener2001** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:15 am

they definitely weren't born killers, but something other than the media warped them. videogames can change the way you perceive the world, for a short time after you're done playing, but you return to normal. if you didn't go back to normal right away or ever, that's something inside your own head.

i agree with denying the influence is dumb, but it's not enough of an influence. media is a pretty small factor compared to nature and nurture and all that other stuff.

i may not be using the right terms, but hopefully you see where i'm coming from.

Joe Camacho · Post by **Joe Camacho** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:52 am

sweener2001 wrote:they definitely weren't born killers, but something other than the media warped them. videogames can change the way you perceive the world, for a short time after you're done playing, but you return to normal. if you didn't go back to normal right away or ever, that's something inside your own head.

i agree with denying the influence is dumb, but it's not enough of an influence. media is a pretty small factor compared to nature and nurture and all that other stuff.

i may not be using the right terms, but hopefully you see where i'm coming from.

Sure, in a nutshell (And because my right hand is busted): Human conduct depends on a lot of variables, specially criminal conduct. Denying one is as dumb as attributing all of it to one.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:05 am

sweener2001 wrote:they definitely weren't born killers, but something other than the media warped them. videogames can change the way you perceive the world, for a short time after you're done playing, but you return to normal. if you didn't go back to normal right away or ever, that's something inside your own head.

i agree with denying the influence is dumb, but it's not enough of an influence. media is a pretty small factor compared to nature and nurture and all that other stuff.

i may not be using the right terms, but hopefully you see where i'm coming from.

I think you are looking for the term "enviornment". Yes, such factors generally contribute to the end result. You simply cannot blame such issues from one specific thing. It simply isn't how people work (human nature).

corronchilejano · Post by **corronchilejano** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:21 am

The point is that many things make a psycho, but when I said the old "Guns don't kill, people do", I meant that people think everything is just cause-effect, when things aren't just black and white.

When you have to enforce what people think, you know you have a problem.

creaothceann · Post by **creaothceann** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:22 am

Deathlike2 wrote:
creaothceann wrote:
Bahamut wrote:im just glad i dont live in germany
...
I'm sure if someone gave creaothceann a panzerfaust... Bahamut only gets a 5 second headstart...

I'll even give him a tank.

Bahamut · Post by **Bahamut** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:39 am

I'm sure if someone gave creaothceann a panzerfaust... Bahamut only gets a 5 second headstart...

a 5 second headstart?!, even with a panzerfaust 30 I'm not going to get far before he blows the shit out of me, for god sake the thing was designed for taking out tanks, not people...

however, if said tank was a German King Tiger, then I'll take him on

sweener2001 · Post by **sweener2001** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:44 am

that's the point, we want you to die

kevman · Post by **kevman** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:59 am

You have to take this things at face value. How seriously are they considering it, really? It could be just as far fetched as some idiot in the US congress introducing some stupid bill that will never, ever get passed and the media reports on it.

Or it could really happen; the German government has an extremely heavy hand. Very heavy.

BTW, its not just the Nazi symbol, its anything WW2-related. A friend took a model airplane back to germany with him and had it confiscated, becuase its COLOR was similar to WW2-vintage planes. It didn't look lke a real plane at all, and had no swastika. Doesn't matter, he can only get a flying permit for a couple hours a year (why do they limit it? Dunno. It fits in a suitcase).

Its also illegal to question, discuss or think that the Holocaust never happened. (Publish a brocure called "did Genocide happen?" or something like that? OFF TO JAIL FOR YOU.) We all know it happened, but the government REALLY has no place in saying I can't say it didn't.

Johan_H · Post by **Johan_H** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:23 am

Makes me wonder if they ban WW2 moves. Do they?

Bahamut · Post by **Bahamut** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:20 pm

If I were German I wouldn't want to talk about WW2 unless it was important or for a good reason

But the fact is that just because a person is German, it doesnt automatically make them accountable of the acts commited in WW2 by their ancestors.

If you look at it, Hitler came to power in a time when the German people were desperate - Hitler said he was their last hope, and who could blame them for beliving him?

The Great Depression had hit, and Germany was dependent on loans from American banks to keep its industries going so it could pay the war reperations demanded by the Allies - when the depression hit, that was it, Germany really was in deep shit because they couldn't pay the Allies.

There were other contributing factors as well, but generally that is seen as the main reason for Hitler's rise to power and the 2nd World War

PHoNyMiKe · Post by **PHoNyMiKe** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:49 pm

my old favorite cartoon 'batman the animated series' had this same dilema. you never saw a person get killed. however there was this one episode where there are humanoid robots. in this episode they mangled these things. looked human, but they crushed them with elevators, chopped off body parts, all sorts of good shit. they could do it cause they weren't represented as people, just robots that looked like people.

Johan_H · Post by **Johan_H** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 6:35 pm

Bahamut wrote:If I were German I wouldn't want to talk about WW2 unless it was important or for a good reason

Exactly why?

Bahamut wrote:But the fact is that just because a person is German, it doesnt automatically make them accountable of the acts commited in WW2 by their ancestors.

You really are some kind of square minded idiot.

PHoNyMiKe · Post by **PHoNyMiKe** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:31 pm

Johan_Hanberg wrote:
Bahamut wrote:If I were German I wouldn't want to talk about WW2 unless it was important or for a good reason
Exactly why?

how stupid are you? why? for the same reason you don't bring up how white people had slaves back in the day in the u.s. and how my great great grandfather pry owned some dude's great great grandfather and whipped him daily.

I do love having conversations with my japanese friend about how america dropped nukes on his country back in the day. oh he loves talking about his long gone relatives that died during that. we have such laughs.

you're a fucking dumbass.

Johan_H · Post by **Johan_H** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:07 pm

I can't see at all why any of those thing would be a problem to talk about, I really don't. What does actions of my ancestors or people that I happen to share nationality with really have to do with me?

HEY EVERYONE! SWEDEN HAD SOME RETARDED PEOPLE CASTRATED EVEN AS LATE IN THE SEVENTIES AND LET GERMAN TROOPS USE OUR TRAINS TO GET TO NORWAY IN WW2!!

Is that something I'm supposed to feel guilt for? I didn't make any of those decisions and was in fact not even alive at the time. I can't see how you're thinking here, I'm really trying to but I can't.

Oskar_Hanberg · Post by **Oskar_Hanberg** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:45 pm

Don't bite flame bait Johan.. It causes blood vessels to pop and then you'll have a heart attack and die before the age of 30.
But yeah.. wtf?? why shouldn't one be able to talk about these things? its not like we have anything to do with it. the only possible reason I can see for not talking about it is if you actually HAVE something to do with it in a direct way. god damn..

Johan_H · Post by **Johan_H** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:01 am

I'm just trying to understand how other people think, you know what an obsession I have with that.

And don't address messages directly to me over Internet forums, it's weird.

Bahamut · Post by **Bahamut** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:31 am

why shouldn't one be able to talk about these things?

I never said they didnt have the right to, i said that IF I were German I wouldn't want to.

I do love having conversations with my japanese friend about how america dropped nukes on his country back in the day. oh he loves talking about his long gone relatives that died during that. we have such laughs.

exactly, its not like your going start up a good conversation with a German by mentioning how impressive the death camps at Auschwitz were

PHoNyMiKe · Post by **PHoNyMiKe** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:42 am

if you want to know how people think then step outside and socialize with some. go call some black dude a afro-american. hey, it's just a word, it's in the dictionary, it has the same amount of letters as the word wallet, it sounds like the word 'trigger', so why shouldn't I be able to go around calling people afro-american? well go do it and let them explain to you. you're a fucking moron, when's the last time you even talked to a human? is there a brain in that skull of yours?

maybe if something bad ever happened in your personal history you wouldn't want to talk about it. why not go ask a mother that had a miscarriage what she thinks went wrong. go ask someone who has no legs if they wanna go shoe shopping. fucking retarded.

Oskar_Hanberg · Post by **Oskar_Hanberg** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:19 am

phOnYmIkE wrote:if you want to know how people think then step outside and socialize with some. go call some black dude a afro-american. hey, it's just a word, it's in the dictionary, it has the same amount of letters as the word wallet, it sounds like the word 'trigger', so why shouldn't I be able to go around calling people afro-american? well go do it and let them explain to you. you're a fucking moron, when's the last time you even talked to a human? is there a brain in that skull of yours?

maybe if something bad ever happened in your personal history you wouldn't want to talk about it. why not go ask a mother that had a miscarriage what she thinks went wrong. go ask someone who has no legs if they wanna go shoe shopping. fucking retarded.

You take yourself very seriously, don't you? And again, there's a difference between being DIRECTLY affected by something, THEN I could understand why one maybe don't want to talk about it. But being overly cautious about what you talk about with who will lead to a quite boring world. Also, it is sad to see how some members of this board have a habit of reffering to people as retarded when they run out of real arguments for their opinion.