AC97 and Zsnes

theboy_181 · Post by **theboy_181** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:00 pm

Hey Guys,

I was wondering if anyone had this problem and has been able to figure it out.

I am running Zsnes in my ADVmame cab. I have onboard sound (SIS 7018 AC'97 AUDIO). I'm in pure DOS using DOSAUD (sndinit.exe,sndtsr.exe)
Every thing else works fine sound wise on my other DOS emulators.

The problem is Zsnes says the sound driver has been loaded and working but there is no sound. I have tried various setting in the zsnes.cfg. Is there a known bug with SIS 7018 AC'97 AUDIO and Zsnes?

Thanks in advance for any clues you may have.

Jason

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:26 pm

ZSNES's SB detection is poor. There's nothing you can do about that, short of using DOSBOX to get the DOS port audio working the way you want to.

theboy_181 · Post by **theboy_181** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:29 pm

Why would I have to use DOSBOX? IS that not emulation through windows?
Im running in pure DOS. Is there no way to pick what soundcard to use? Can Zsnes be compiled for my ac97?
Is there an older version that lets you pick a sound card?

Thanks.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:40 pm

theboy_181 wrote:Why would I have to use DOSBOX?

If you are not using any of the 9x OSes, then you will need Sound Blaster emulation available. Most sound card drivers for 9x provide said Sound Blaster emulation.

IS that not emulation through windows?

That is emulating DOS through Windows. However, if you are using a 9x based OS, Sound Blaster detection/emulation is usually far better while in Windows, even though there is some overhead, it works much better for ZSNES DOS port's sound detection.

Im running in pure DOS. Is there no way to pick what soundcard to use?

No. ZSNES has never implemented any sort of sound lib, and requires no less than a Creative SB16/32/64 ISA card for maximum compatibility+optimal audio output.

Can Zsnes be compiled for my ac97?

No. The Windows port would be a better solution for maximum compatibility

Is there an older version that lets you pick a sound card?

Nope. Never have, and probably never will.

theboy_181 · Post by **theboy_181** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:47 pm

I'm failing to understand why Zsnes is unable to use sound under my current settings. All the other emulators I am using work fine. I have to set them up to select soundblaster manually. (one would figure that this is what Zsnes does automatically) Do I need to have some program running to emulated a soundblaster in DOS thats compatable with Zsnes? Is that not what DOSAUD does? Have you heard of any reports of people not being able to get sound with AC97 onboard in PURE DOS?

Thanks

PS Thanks for the quick replies too..

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:58 pm

theboy_181 wrote:I'm failing to understand why Zsnes is unable to use sound under my current settings. All the other emulators I am using work fine. I have to set them up to select soundblaster manually. (one would figure that this is what Zsnes does automatically)

You're not paying attention to the fact that ZSNES has poor DOS sound compatibility. ZSNES does some auto-sound audio detection, but its still relatively weak. You may want to try enable the force 8-bit sound option (in the sound menu or cfg) and see if you get output though.

Edit: You will have to restart ZSNES for the setting to be applied.

Do I need to have some program running to emulated a soundblaster in DOS thats compatable with Zsnes?

Yes.

Is that not what DOSAUD does?

A quick google search seems to come up the same, so I guess it does.

Have you heard of any reports of people not being able to get sound with AC97 onboard in PURE DOS?

Yes, but those reports are few since the DOS port is the smallest portion of the userbase.

funkyass · Post by **funkyass** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:09 pm

ZSNES DOS only ever worked properly with ISA sound cards.

the correct solution is to go get older hardware, or use windows.

theboy_181 · Post by **theboy_181** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:57 pm

Ok I got it working. .

I had to add SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 T6 to the autoexec.bat and edit sndinit ... it is posible and it sounds awsome!!!

Thanks for sending me in the right direction, doesnt seem like you guys helped but wouldn't of been able to do it with out you..

Jason

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:09 pm

theboy_181 wrote:Ok I got it working. .

I had to add SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 T6 to the autoexec.bat and edit sndinit ... it is posible and it sounds awsome!!!

Thanks for sending me in the right direction, doesnt seem like you guys helped but wouldn't of been able to do it with out you..

Jason

I'm surprised ANY DOS apps had sound without the BLASTER variable set.

But really.... PCI sound solutions(which your's is) are ONLY compatible with DOS through ISA emulation.
Said emulation has historically been iffy, even with Creative's own products.
I can't imagine it's gotten better as we've gotten further away from actually NEEDING said emulation.

If you need DOS sound, you need either a system that can emulate DOS, or a system that can take an ISA sound card.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:23 am

The SET BLASTER string has been important since it was conceived... that's always been required for DOS audio.

theboy_181 · Post by **theboy_181** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:24 am

I think it was the h5 and t6 is what fixed my problem.. t6 meaning all soundblaster card..

franpa · Post by **franpa** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:56 am

theboy_181 wrote:I think it was the h5 and t6 is what fixed my problem.. t6 meaning all soundblaster card..

T6 means soundblaster 16

Kajuru · Post by **Kajuru** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:33 am

Deathlike: Some apps can enable sound under DOS even without a BLASTER string or sound related stuff loaded. From the top of my head, No$gmb detects sb16(and my old ESS/sbpro) if it's missing. Obviously the sound will be gone once you exit the app.

H5(or some other hdma) is required for 16bit audio.

franpa · Post by **franpa** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:32 am

Kajuru wrote:Deathlike: Some apps can enable sound under DOS even without a BLASTER string or sound related stuff loaded. From the top of my head, No$gmb detects sb16(and my old ESS/sbpro) if it's missing. Obviously the sound will be gone once you exit the app.

and? the DOS port is no longer updated, so the audio detection most likely wont be updated for the DOS port.

theboy_181 · Post by **theboy_181** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:47 pm

Why is every project giving up on DOS?
I find that every Emulator I have used is way better in DOS, and smells nicer too..

paulguy · Post by **paulguy** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:59 pm

Maybe if your hardware sucks. I prefer the Windows/Linux ports much better. I'm sure there are nice frontends for both platforms too, if you want a cabinet setup.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:22 pm

theboy_181 wrote:Why is every project giving up on DOS?
I find that every Emulator I have used is way better in DOS, and smells nicer too..

It is maintainence.. and particularly adding stuff. It is simply not a viable platform for any of it anymore.

whicker · Post by **whicker** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:35 pm

theboy_181 wrote:Why is every project giving up on DOS?
I find that every Emulator I have used is way better in DOS, and smells nicer too..

Where can a person even start on this comment...

DOS has no concept of Sound, except for printing character 7, "beep". Your program needs to assume a sound card is there or otherwise poke around. Your new fangled or clone soundcard needs to know it needs to act like a SoundBlaster sound card. Sound library ahoy.

DOS has no concept of Video, except for the functions provided by the VGA BIOS. Even then, for any decent speed, programs have to write directly to video memory and registers. For any decent video mode resolutions (non-paged), you need to use VESA. Because VESA 2.0 came out so damn late in the game, you need 'r3gged sci tech display d0ctor serial numbahZ'. Otherwise, enjoy your 16-color 640x480, or 256-color 320x200 mode.

USB game controllers? USB anything? Good luck. Custom TSR time.

Getting your BiPentium 2 out of 20-bit paged addressing mode? ("Real mode", uhuh, marketing genius.) Need DOS/4GW and a compiler that supports it "behind the back".

Timing? Yeah, okay, wait for V-sync that may or may not be there at port $3DA bit 3. Use the system timer? Hmm, 18 some-odd Hertz. Use CPU timing instructions. OK, What CPU do you have?

Well since it's called Disk Operating System, really easy to work with files? Oh crap, 8.3 filename. (or 6 char then wiggle number filenames).

DOS Stinks

Kajuru · Post by **Kajuru** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:03 pm

franpa wrote:
Kajuru wrote:Deathlike: Some apps can enable sound under DOS even without a BLASTER string or sound related stuff loaded. From the top of my head, No$gmb detects sb16(and my old ESS/sbpro) if it's missing. Obviously the sound will be gone once you exit the app.
and? the DOS port is no longer updated, so the audio detection most likely wont be updated for the DOS port.

I've pointed to the fact that SET BLASTER isn't the only way around enabling sound in DOS. I NEVER MENTIONED ANYTHING ABOUT UPDATING SOUND DETECTION ROUTINES IN ZSNES

snkcube · Post by **snkcube** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:25 pm

I don't really see the point of using DOS in this day of age unless you have a very weak computer or you just want to run old DOS programs.

creaothceann · Post by **creaothceann** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:07 pm

whicker wrote:
theboy_181 wrote:Why is every project giving up on DOS?
I find that every Emulator I have used is way better in DOS, and smells nicer too..
Where can a person even start on this comment...

DOS has no concept of Sound, except for printing character 7, "beep". Your program needs to assume a sound card is there or otherwise poke around. Your new fangled or clone soundcard needs to know it needs to act like a SoundBlaster sound card. Sound library ahoy.

DOS has no concept of Video, except for the functions provided by the VGA BIOS. Even then, for any decent speed, programs have to write directly to video memory and registers. For any decent video mode resolutions (non-paged), you need to use VESA. Because VESA 2.0 came out so damn late in the game, you need 'r3gged sci tech display d0ctor serial numbahZ'. Otherwise, enjoy your 16-color 640x480, or 256-color 320x200 mode.

USB game controllers? USB anything? Good luck. Custom TSR time.

Getting your BiPentium 2 out of 20-bit paged addressing mode? ("Real mode", uhuh, marketing genius.) Need DOS/4GW and a compiler that supports it "behind the back".

Timing? Yeah, okay, wait for V-sync that may or may not be there at port $3DA bit 3. Use the system timer? Hmm, 18 some-odd Hertz. Use CPU timing instructions. OK, What CPU do you have?

Well since it's called Disk Operating System, really easy to work with files? Oh crap, 8.3 filename. (or 6 char then wiggle number filenames).

DOS Stinks

Addendum: There are the "unofficial" video modes, too. (ModeX etc.) A bit more complicated to program though.

DOS was great when you needed absolute control over timing, ie. no other programs running in the background.

franpa · Post by **franpa** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:27 am

Kajuru wrote:
franpa wrote:
Kajuru wrote:Deathlike: Some apps can enable sound under DOS even without a BLASTER string or sound related stuff loaded. From the top of my head, No$gmb detects sb16(and my old ESS/sbpro) if it's missing. Obviously the sound will be gone once you exit the app.
and? the DOS port is no longer updated, so the audio detection most likely wont be updated for the DOS port.
I've pointed to the fact that SET BLASTER isn't the only way around enabling sound in DOS. I NEVER MENTIONED ANYTHING ABOUT UPDATING SOUND DETECTION ROUTINES IN ZSNES

well why make the comment about DOS Programs not needing that command here on this board in a ZSNES sub forum?

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:28 am

franpa wrote:
Kajuru wrote:
franpa wrote:
Kajuru wrote:Deathlike: Some apps can enable sound under DOS even without a BLASTER string or sound related stuff loaded. From the top of my head, No$gmb detects sb16(and my old ESS/sbpro) if it's missing. Obviously the sound will be gone once you exit the app.
and? the DOS port is no longer updated, so the audio detection most likely wont be updated for the DOS port.
I've pointed to the fact that SET BLASTER isn't the only way around enabling sound in DOS. I NEVER MENTIONED ANYTHING ABOUT UPDATING SOUND DETECTION ROUTINES IN ZSNES
well why make the comment about DOS Programs not needing that command here on this board in a ZSNES sub forum?

Because it was relevant to the discussion.

Also: You are an idiot.

Relevant to the discussion, it's worth noting that auto-detection of sound cards in DOS wasn't exactly unknown to cause problems. There were a lot of systems that locked up when you tried to do it.
So doing it at program start by default isn't exactly a wise move. Most games of the era tucked it into a separate config app, and as an optional method of configuration.

Kajuru · Post by **Kajuru** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 2:20 pm

Gil_Hamilton wrote:Relevant to the discussion, it's worth noting that auto-detection of sound cards in DOS wasn't exactly unknown to cause problems. There were a lot of systems that locked up when you tried to do it.

Off-Topic: Changing resolutions was also a good candidate for crashing. Meh

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:09 am

Kajuru wrote:
Gil_Hamilton wrote:Relevant to the discussion, it's worth noting that auto-detection of sound cards in DOS wasn't exactly unknown to cause problems. There were a lot of systems that locked up when you tried to do it.
Off-Topic: Changing resolutions was also a good candidate for crashing. Meh

And yet we loved it, and swore Windows gaming would never take off.

Thank you DirectX!