The irony of the Wii

[Joe Camacho]

So that Wii, it's really ironic.

[DancemasterGlenn]

So that Wii, it's really ironic.

Haha, seriously. This discussion was over pages ago.

[Starman Ghost]

lol, just lol

[creaothceann]

Sonic 3 & Knuckles IMO is better looking, has larger levels, and smoother play than SMW

I wonder why...

Why do you say [that?]

The comparison is inherently flawed... SMW was a launch game; it showed very few SNES-specific features (HDMA effect for screen transitions, Mode7 effect for some boss battles, and half-transparent ghosts).

S3K was created when the developers were quite familiar with the system. It also had much more ROM space available than SMW, hence more space for level data and animations.

[sweener2001]

honestly, this topic was over when the first post was made. i don't know of anyone who actually thought that this console would flop.

[corronchilejano]

honestly, this topic was over when the first post was made. i don't know of anyone who actually thought that this console would flop.

No one did. Some said it with the hopes that a fairy listened.

[blackmyst]

If graphics don't effect gameplay and never have, then why does Nintendo release new consoles, and why should I spend my hard earned money to buy them? It directly contradicts the philosophy you're pushing.

What? The Wii's graphics are for all intents and purposes identical to the Cube's. We've already gone over why they decided to release a new console instead of half a dozen addons for an existing one. Please read that bit again.

I mean really. By your logic, why release a new Playstation when they could upgrade the GPU on the existing one? Hell, upgrading is commonplace on the PC, why would I need to buy a whole new console just for that?

Not at all. But you can't possibly believe that the SNES FX chip could do as good of a job at facial expressions than a later system (though, I have to say that Andross face at the end is at least as advanced as Uncharted). Faces have lots of small, stretchy parts that contort like you wouldn't believe. I'm not sure why you can't see the discrepency between real life and games, even now.

There you go again. If it doesn't look exactly like real life, it looks crappy? Do you understand the kind of thing I'm arguing against?

Wait, so now you care about graphical realism? Also, why again wouldn't that same scene play the same but look better if it was released on the PS3?

I don't even know what to tell you, since you seem to equate realism with beauty, and thus when I say I think something looks pretty I must mean it looks realistic? We're not on the same page here.

But anyway, you're still misinterpreting that comment. It was meant as an example of how art direction is more important than any amount of GPU trickery seeing how Zelda, Metroid and SMG all look better than like 80% of the crap that comes out on either of the other consoles regardless of how many pixels it pushes.

Have you seen SMG? Sure it may have looked a bit smoother with a faster GPU, maybe a bit sharper here and there. Not by much though, and CERTAINLY not by so much that it warrants the kind of holy anti-Nintendo fire that it seems to inspire in you. These games look good. Get over it.

No, I'm wondering why I have to buy a new $250 console when I already own a gamecube. If graphics don't matter, then why can't Nintendo just keep making gamecube games? And why did it take them until the Wii to realize this airmouse "innovation?"

Funny how I could paste the exact same answer under so many of your comments. Read my first two paragraphs up there.

Uhhh, the Gamecube was released well after the PS2 came out. Don't tell me you don't attribute it's superior hardware to this fact, but to Nintendo's greater R&D.

One year. So let's say they released earlier and only had the same power as the PS2.

See, you keep doing this. Twisting things around. No, I made this comment because YOU said Nintendo could never compete with the other companies in that department. Which is obviously nonsense, how else could they come out with a more powerful box hardly a year later?

Nintendo can easily compete on a hardware level. I don't see any reason why not. You're not even challenging my assumption that you pulled your so called facts out of your other end.

Uhhhh, okay?

Good to see you agree.

Chevy Bass Fishing 17 and Barbie Dream Boat Puzzle encourage innovation? Gimme a break. The bulk of the DS library is crap like this. Companies will continue to take chances. I agree that there are great games that do poorly sales-wise, but that has always existed, even before this generation. I think HD was a necessary transition that is likely going to stay with us for about forty years. This won't be the end of the line for quirky new ideas on powerful consoles.

Riiight because I'm talking about Barbie Horse Adventures. Yeah, great games doing poorly have always existed, and I'm saying there will barely be any of those in the future, because production costs have never been this high.

The bulk of the DS library is crap? The DS has boatloads of great games. Please don't tell me you're blind to what the bulk of the Xbox360 library is. Shooters, shooters, shooters, bulky guys with guns, tits with guns, WWII, WWII, WWII, Madden x 1000000 oh god I'm getting nauseous just visualizing it.

Great, so you describe one game, an FPS, and my logic is toast?

One game is all I need to challenge your ridiculous assumption that the Wiimote is "too slow for aiming".

Have fun with tons of Wiimote usage on a fighting game or a platformer or an RPG, or a schmup, or a racing game, or a soccer game, etc.

Never played Excite Truck (the name is retarded, but whatever)? Never played Strikers, or those EA sports games implementing the Wiimote which everyone agreed were a breath of fresh air after the clones they've been putting out for literally decades?

But regardless, I'll say it again: just because you're too stuck with one mindset to think of anything, doesn't mean there isn't something great that can be done. Too many developers think like you, I'll give you that though.

I would also say that the best gamepad player would destroy the best wiimote player in an FPS game, even without auto-aim. I can't offer you much more than an opinion on this, but I have played CS for six years and am CAL level good, so I can tell you that even a joystick on a gamepad can make far quicker movements and turns, even if the learning curve is a lot higher.

Hahaha no. I would say not. Just a little anecdote: I don't own RE4 Wii, but I've heard one person say they now regularly pull off several headshots in a single motion, like 1-2-3, where such a thing was impossible on either the Cube or PS2 version of the game.

But just for argument's sake (I still say you're silly, but hypothetically), let's say a highly trained joystick veteran of 6 years could beat me with a Wiimote? Who the hell cares what someone like that can do? I certainly don't! Like I said, I just don't want to go back to randomly waving my gun in the general direction of a bunch of enemies. I'm your average gamer who just wants to have fun NOW and doesn't give two shits about what might happen after spending six years on the same game.

But still, you cannot make far quicker movements with something that is inherently limited to the range of motion in a tiny joystick, than something that literally allows you to aim your hand anywhere on the screen instantly. It's a physical thing, what else is there to say?

Maybe that wouldn't have been the situation if they had used actual DVDs to begin with on the gamecube. It's hard to justify the Wii based on idiot decisions that they made on the cube. Just by calling it a cube, they would have had to rename any revision not shaped like a cube to something else. It's almost sad how bad their foresight has become.

Wow. You really don't like Nintendo, do you. Complaining about the Gamecube's name? Where the hell did that come from all of a sudden? You're just out of things to say.

As for the format, I named other things besides the DVD that you ignored, but whatever. It was a design decision (couldn't have made a small cube-shape with regular DVD's, see the Panasonic Q) and a piracy measure. And whatever you have to say against that (like, the PS1 and 2 might have actually benefited from easy piracy), you cannot deny it was effective for what they intended, there is no way to simply burn disks for the console.

I think you're deluding yourself, my friend. I'm sorry my opinions struck such a chord. This thread was pretty civil until you jumped in and started attacking my intelligence. Ironic that the most hateful part comes at a part where you post a clearly incorrect counterpoint.

So I misfired once, this does not negate the rest of that PSF library staring at you right there. Obviously you're going to insist that all those other soundtracks on there sound like crap, but the simple fact is you could never recognize many of them as synth tracks if you were subjected to a blind test.

New gamers are always taking the place of old ones, and I doubt those people have gotten tired of anything. And I guess I won't see you playing SSBM for the Wii, then. And I guess Zelda was pretty boring for you, too, since it barely used the wiimote. Maybe Nintendo is just the one who needs the wiimote, since all Link ever does is save the princess and fight Ganon over and over again. I can see how you might get bored with that recycled plot.

See, we're not that different, we both bring the thread down. I sound hateful, you make silly statements like a raging fanboy. Because god damn, that is some fanboy bullshit right there.

If you subscribe to the myth that "oh all zeldas are the same LOLZ" then you're even worse than I initially thought, and that's really bad. I mean I could write a load of paragraphs detailing how that is an unbelievably horrible statement to make, but I'll leave that for some other time.

Either way, If you're bored that doesn't mean you suddenly don't want to play old things anymore, ever. It's just the need for variety, and this is simple human nature, I don't see what could possibly be so difficult to comprehend about this. There is no way you can deny that we're stuck within a set few genres, hell, you yourself can't even think outside of "FPS, RPG, racer" or something. And without any change, people get bored eventually. Just because you're still happy with WWII shooter number five thousand, doesn't mean everybody else is.

Sort of, but it doesn't nullify the fun of games that don't rely on it.

Again with the twisting it around. I'm not saying games without motion controls can't be fun anymore, ever. YOU are on some kind of holy crusade against the Wii and insist that it has no right to be whatsoever.

It's just an airmouse, dude. Games that use a mouse have been getting made on the PC for a long time. Ever play starcraft? I gaurantee you that you'll be more impressed with that application than using it to highlight areas and shake it up and down rapidly to gain bonus points.

Funny that you mention the PC, because get this: I have been playing games in HD on my PC since long before the 360 or PS3 were released. Those consoles are completely redundant! Crysis looks better than anything either of those two can muster!

Well obviously I'm being sarcastic. There are some advantages to the PS3 and 360, otherwise people wouldn't be buying them. Like, well... you don't have to install stuff I guess.

Anyway, it's cute that you're going to continue calling it an airmouse, though if you find an "airmouse" that has the ability to sense distance to the screen as well as rotation, two additional motion sensors on top of that, an analogue stick, and rumble and sound, do alert me because I'd love to have one.

It was included as a marketing equalizer. It's just as unimpressive and genre-limited in other consoles.

Ohhh wait, now I get it. You were so upset over Lair that you cannot possibly imagine how motion controls could be used for good rather than evil?

So? Create a touchpad with pressable ABXY squares on the bottom.

Come on man, quit doing that. Why do I have to explain everything simply because you make random statements without any real experience with the games?

No wonder you don't think highly of the DS. There are SO many games on the DS that transcend far above anything you could do with a simple setup like that, I don't even know where to begin. I'll repeat my example of MP hunters: among other buttons, it has a weapon select button that you hold and drag downwards, revealing 8 different weapons arranged in a fan, you move the stylus over one of them, then let go. Very quick, very efficient, very hard to do blind. Well, that's just a simple application, there are far more complex ones like full windows-like interfaces, but... even the simple ability for the developer to arrange and label their own buttons goes a long way.

But you still haven't responded to my original point: some games like Hunters might want the touch screen away from the playing screen, while others like Zelda need the playfield itself to be touchable? How are you going to solve that for both cases? Tell me.

Seeing as how people are largely wanting to play these things at school, on a car or plane, while lounging at night in their homes, I don't think it's very smart to go for the outside-on-sunny-day-parkbench crowd.


I think this is a total stretch. I'm pretty sure Nintendo cheaped out and used battery life as an excuse. They should have portabalized the 3mhz SNES instead.

Now this wasn't an entirely serious rant on my part, but still. I said I had no way of knowing if Nintendo intended for it, but my point was that it did turn out that way. You cannot play the DS, PSP or even a laptop outside on a bright day, but you can play the GBA. This is all I was saying, and it's a fact even you can't deny.

But still, they used battery life as an excuse? Since when is long battery life "an excuse"? Why would you say that? It's a good thing isn't it?

[ReRuss]

Seeing as how people are largely wanting to play these things at school, on a car or plane, while lounging at night in their homes, I don't think it's very smart to go for the outside-on-sunny-day-parkbench crowd.


I think this is a total stretch. I'm pretty sure Nintendo cheaped out and used battery life as an excuse. They should have portabalized the 3mhz SNES instead.

Now this wasn't an entirely serious rant on my part, but still. I said I had no way of knowing if Nintendo intended for it, but my point was that it did turn out that way. You cannot play the DS, psp or even a laptop outside on a bright day, but you can play the GBA. This is all I was saying, and it's a fact even you can't deny.

But still, they used battery life as an excuse? Since when is long battery life "an excuse"? Why would you say that? It's a good thing isn't it?

I'm gonna have to agree with blackmyst on that one all too much...

Sometimes the better technology itself is the downfall , just take a look at gameboy vs gamegear...

gameboy had it's green screen and only being a black and white system , 4 batteries , needed light , but you could walk outside on a bright day and see it perfectly

gamegear was color , a decent number of games that were on genesis , it used 6 batteries and it's great hardware failed in daylight...

I could care less how advanced a system is , so long as it actually works without me fixing it

[Gil_Hamilton]

Irony of the Wii: It plays Genesis games.

[Panzer88]

If graphics don't effect gameplay and never have, then why does Nintendo release new consoles, and why should I spend my hard earned money to buy them? It directly contradicts the philosophy you're pushing.

What? The Wii's graphics are for all intents and purposes identical to the Cube's.

whaaat? Identical to the cube's? you need to look some stuff up man, the Wii is superior to the Xbox original and twice the guts of the Cube.

Look at Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3, the lighting effects and advanced surface shaders they use could not be happening on the GC.

Riiight because I'm talking about Barbie Horse Adventures. Yeah, great games doing poorly have always existed, and I'm saying there will barely be any of those in the future, because production costs have never been this high.

The bulk of the DS library is crap? The DS has boatloads of great games. Please don't tell me you're blind to what the bulk of the Xbox360 library is. Shooters, shooters, shooters, bulky guys with guns, tits with guns, WWII, WWII, WWII, Madden x 1000000 oh god I'm getting nauseous just visualizing it.

man, you're going to far, maybe with the original xbox you'd be closer to the truth (although there was still a good variety of titles), or maybe the PS3, but not the 360, they've got a great variety of games, I don't see where this is coming from.

You are right though, the Wiimote can FPS faster than a joystick player, I think people just say otherwise because it's a nintendo system, if it had been made by microsoft for Halo or another big FPS people would be worshiping it, it really just comes down to video game politics, and political correctness.

@FitzRoy

On another note, the inability to have the "lift mouse" function, if you're looking towards Virtual Reality as the future, is a non issue because at the time of VR you won't have to scroll, but you can just point directly at the object, this is a step forward, not a step backward.

As for the DS, saying that virtual buttons are unnecessary or inferior to physical buttons is not valid, with virtual buttons the game designer can have as many as they want, in any configuration, and with a certain look and style, so instead of "press the A button" the game could say "utilize feature x on your radar display" which would be more immersive than old style buttons. Again, it's a step forward, not a step back.

also for portables battery life and being able to play in a variety of lighting conditions are sometimes the biggest features, so in a sense, since they are already not as good as a home system, they should try to be the best portable, not the most like a home console, because people already have home consoles, if they want a portable they want it to be portable, for long periods of time.

[ReRuss]

Irony of the Wii: It plays Genesis games.

They have titles for TG16 , gen , and NeoGeo...

But none from its own handhelds... bit of irony I suppose

[Panzer88]

Irony of the Wii: It plays Genesis games.

They have titles for TG16 , gen , and NeoGeo...

But none from its own handhelds... bit of irony I suppose

are you kidding me? I thought everyone knew that they'll be putting those out when they release Virtual Handheld for the DS or their next portable.

[Snark]

Where's my Alien Soldier on Genesis?

Hmm hmm. Also by Treasure Dynamite Heady.



*Deep Barry White voice*
Snark has enough necrophilic love for ALLLLL dead consoles...

Ohhhh baby...

[Panzer88]

I like the way you think Snark, I like the consoles, I just get pissy at people because I'm a pill.

[ReRuss]

Irony of the Wii: It plays Genesis games.

They have titles for TG16 , gen , and NeoGeo...

But none from its own handhelds... bit of irony I suppose

are you kidding me? I thought everyone knew that they'll be putting those out when they release Virtual Handheld for the DS or their next portable.

I can already play the old handhelds on DS...

[Panzer88]

well if you only own GBA games, sure. The DS does NOT support Game and Watch, Gameboy Classic, Virtual Boy, or Gameboy Color games.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_DS#Compatibility

[snkcube]

Maybe he means using a GBA flash card to play the older Game Boy games?

[Panzer88]

but that's illegal



might as well just say download an emu for your PSP.

We've been able to emulate a lot of stuff they haven't officially rereleased untill recently but that's not the point is it? the point is what is officially and legally available today.

[blackmyst]

whaaat? Identical to the cube's? you need to look some stuff up man, the Wii is superior to the Xbox original and twice the guts of the Cube.

Look at Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3, the lighting effects and advanced surface shaders they use could not be happening on the GC.

Let's not kid ourselves, technically they're different but in practice you're going to have to really look hard to find much of a visual quality difference between those and the best looking Cube games such as MP1&2 or RE4. And it doesn't matter.

man, you're going to far

I know! ;p Just providing some counterweight towards the "almost all DS games are crap lol" or "all Wii games are minigame collections" or other such bullhonkey.

[ReRuss]

Yea I got a supercard SD...

So all my old gameboy games I could just throw on a SD card and be set , Moonshell handled any video , music , images , or text docs if I needed em (mainly some text docs for quick ref to stuff like animal crossing hair or whatever) , then with the DS puch I had I could keep my DS games in the sleeve , so if I wanted , I could play some link games with a couple people I knew

Only downfall , SuperCard isn't known for it's GBA support... but it's DS support , sure some GBA would be fine yea , but they had some decent homebrew ,

I found slightly better than takin my PSP anywhere , mainly for the fact I knew a lot more DS owners than PSP owners

Yes it would be illegal if I didn't own the originals...

But still , virtual handheld might be nice idea for those wanting things from Virtual Boy or G&W , maybe other handhelds non-nintendo

[Panzer88]

yeah, gamegear would be cool.

I think even if you own the originals you technically only own a license to one copy, but whatever.

[quote="blackmyst"]Let's not kid ourselves, technically they're different but in practice you're going to have to really look hard to find much of a visual quality difference between those and the best looking Cube games such as MP1&2 or RE4. And it doesn't matter

I'm not kidding myself, the stuff on Galaxy ISN'T possible on cube, review your hardware limitations. Even if games don't amazing you can notice extra shine, extra lighting, and interesting shaders.

don't tell me you don't think that the Wii can top any game on the PS2, Cube, and XBOX original hands down, any day. it's got the power, not enough people are using it.

It's not about me trying to say it's more powerful that it is, and you're right, it's not important how powerful a system is, but it SHOULD be pushed to IT'S limit, it's the only responsible thing to do. If the system isn't as powerful as the other ones, doesn't mean developers shouldn't even try, a lot of people can do better. Especially when we're looking at a lot of cheap party games.

[Gil_Hamilton]

I think even if you own the originals you technically only own a license to one copy, but whatever.

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#117

US copyright law.
Section 117.1.a says making a copy or adaptation is allowed provided it's an essential step in the utilization of a computer program on a machine. Or if it's made for backup purposes.

And despite what Nintendo says, game console software falls under computer program.


UNFORTUNATELY, the law does NOT allow you to acquire your copy from an someone who is not authorized by the copyright holder to distribute the software(IE: by downloading ROM images off a website). You MUST make the copy yourself.

[Panzer88]

do you have to dump it yourself too? or not, (I guess there's no way to prove it one way or the other besides if you had the dumping hardware or not)

also would owning a VC version count? or do you have to have a cart.

[adventure_of_link]

irony of the wii:

PS3 intentionally put less units on the shelves on launch day and don't sell as good, yet wiis are selling like hotcakes and you can't find any anywhere :\

[Panzer88]

irony of the Wii:

despite the unshakable "kiddie" image people have of Nintendo, they keep putting out some of the most disturbing games on their system.

case in point, manhunt 2.