Fresh Crisp Graphics?????

[I.S.T.]

So I still find it funny that he's going for flashy HQ4x graphics, then wants accurate sound instead of playing with the options to "enhance" that too.

Again, you forget that a lot of the inaccurate sounds happen to sound like shit that's been run through a grinder five times over.

You're referring to core inaccuracies, not post-processing inaccuracies.

I could say a lot of the inaccurate graphics are garbled messes just as easily.

It's like you read what I say, then pretend I said something else.

[blackmyst]

Using no filters is the closest thing to real snes, I always go with that.

Surely you mean the NTSC filter is the closest thing to a real SNES?

[creaothceann]

Well, it's somewhat closer to the PPU.

[Hicks]

Am I the only one who likes the super eagle filter?
BTW, what is the optimal refresh rate for zsnes? I find horisontal movement to be very stuttery...

[Johan_H]

BTW, what is the optimal refresh rate for zsnes? I find horisontal movement to be very stuttery...

Dividable by 60 or 50 for NTSC or PAL games respectively.

[Grahf]

For those of us using ZSNES on high-resolution 20" LCD computer monitors, using no filters at all looks like utter garbage (EDIT: adding an "IMO" here as a nicety for people who think unfiltered high-res ZSNES garbage looks nice)...

I imagine many people want to experience ZSNES as close to possible as playing on old CRT television sets from the early 1990s.

Some of us are unable to hook our computers up to a CRT television set via an s-video cable or otherwise, so we're stuck using an LCD.

That's one reason I almost always like scanlines on my emulators.
Interpolation + scanlines is one possibility.
NTSC is best if, like me, you too want to recreate that old television set feel.

[Blasingame]

I like the ntsc filter. it tricks me into thinking i'm playing snes as a kid in the basement of my parents old house.

[grinvader]

it tricks me into thinking i'm playing snes as a kid in the basement of my parents old house.

You ARE playing snes games, still a kid, and in the basement of your parents' new house.

Not much trickery needed.

[ZH/Franky]

This whole "NTSC filter sends me back to the good old days" doesn't go with me. I think we need a "PAL" filter

[Gil_Hamilton]

This whole "NTSC filter sends me back to the good old days" doesn't go with me. I think we need a "PAL" filter

What, you WANT your games slow, choppy, distorted, and off-color(PAL has a smaller color gamut than NTSC)?

[paulguy]

I like playing on a 42" plasma with no filters. PIXELS THE SIZE OF YOUR FINGERTIPS!

[Clements]

It is actually possible to simulate a PAL filter, to resemble playing the SNES on an average PAL TV available around the time of the console's lifespan. Simply smear faeces all over your screen. Voilà.

[Grahf]

I like your style Clements.

[ZH/Franky]

This whole "NTSC filter sends me back to the good old days" doesn't go with me. I think we need a "PAL" filter

What, you WANT your games slow, choppy, distorted, and off-color(PAL has a smaller color gamut than NTSC)?

That's only for actual PAL games. By the way, they were only usually choppy and whatnot because they were conversions from NTSC games.
Sometimes, developers would make good conversions and games would actually come out fullscreen, not be too slow, and whatnot. And then there were games that were designed specifically for PAL, and PAL regions only (like Terranigma, for example).

Yeah, being British sucks if you're a gamer and can't mod your consoles so you can play US/JPN games.

I don't see how PAL could be worse than NTSC by the way. It runs at a higher resolution than NTSC.

[I.S.T.]

This whole "NTSC filter sends me back to the good old days" doesn't go with me. I think we need a "PAL" filter

What, you WANT your games slow, choppy, distorted, and off-color(PAL has a smaller color gamut than NTSC)?

That's only for actual PAL games. By the way, they were only usually choppy and whatnot because they were conversions from NTSC games.
Sometimes, developers would make good conversions and games would actually come out fullscreen, not be too slow, and whatnot. And then there were games that were designed specifically for PAL, and PAL regions only (like Terranigma, for example).

Yeah, being British sucks if you're a gamer and can't mod your consoles so you can play US/JPN games.

I don't see how PAL could be worse than NTSC by the way. It runs at a higher resolution than NTSC.

Lower frame rate and different color system. >.>

[ZH/Franky]

I have an NTSC to PAL converter. I run NTSC through my TV (US version of Resident Evil 4 from my PS2), and colours are fine. I then plug the converter in, to convert the NTSC to a PAL signal, and there's little difference in the colours.

PAL runs at 50hz as opposed to NTSC's 60. But PAL can also run at 60hz, and most TV's support 60hz, as a bare minimum. The lower framerate is only bad when NTSC games get crappy conversions to PAL when being made ready fro released in PAL regions.

There's actually a big similiarity between the two standards (hence why these converters are possible).




In a lot of ways, PAL is superior, but I'll let you do your own research before you argue (that is of course, if you do research )..

[Johan_H]

I don't see how PAL could be worse than NTSC by the way. It runs at a higher resolution than NTSC.

The SNES still outputs the same resolution on PAL systems.

Lower frame rate and different color system. >.>

Not to mention the squashing

In a lot of ways, PAL is superior.

For watching TV, sure, for unmodded SNES gaming, it's worse in just about every way.

[ZH/Franky]

I don't see how PAL could be worse than NTSC by the way. It runs at a higher resolution than NTSC.

The SNES still outputs the same resolution on PAL systems.

Was talking about PAL, not about the resolution a snes feeds it.

[ZH/Franky]

For watching TV, sure, for unmodded SNES gaming, it's worse in just about every way.

For gaming, it sucks usually, since most games are designed initially for NTSC, then they do what are usually really crappy conversion to get it on PAL regions.




Nowadays, most TV's support 60hz in Europe, so developers could easily just display games in PAL but at 60hz. (and offer a 50hz mode if the TV doesn't support 60hz). I wish they would, since it means I wouldn't have to waste my time importing games.

[declan]

Lower frame rate and different color system. >.>

The PAL frame rate is still well above the max frequency the (human) eye detect. So what does it matter if it does 5 frames less a second, when we can't even detect it!?!?!?
What does count, is the superior reselution of PAL

[Johan_H]

Lower frame rate and different color system. >.>

The PAL frame rate is still well above the max frequency the (human) eye detect. So what does it matter if it does 5 frames less a second, when we can't even detect it!?!?!?

It matters for gaming, I thought that was what we we're talking about.

[Gil_Hamilton]

Lower frame rate and different color system. >.>

The PAL frame rate is still well above the max frequency the (human) eye detect. So what does it matter if it does 5 frames less a second, when we can't even detect it!?!?!?

Then explain why the PAL market had so many scan-doubled sets to prevent flickering during the reign of the CRT.

Fact: a 50Hz refresh is NOT adequate to prevent perceptible image flicker.

It's also part of the Virtual Boy Headache, tangentally.

What does count, is the superior reselution of PAL

Not for games running at a maximum of 512*448 it doesn't.

[declan]

Hey there's no way i'm going to try and argue with Gil over this.
Gil, you're too friggen knowlegeable in this area.
So i conceed defeat
*waves white flag in the air*

[Grahf]

Lower frame rate and different color system. >.>

The PAL frame rate is still well above the max frequency the (human) eye detect. So what does it matter if it does 5 frames less a second, when we can't even detect it!?!?!?

Uh-Oh.... Not that old myth again......

http://amo.net/NT/02-21-01FPS.html
http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_c ... ns_see.htm
http://www.tweakguides.com/Graphics_5.html

In particular the common claim that "The human eye can't see more than 24 (or 25 or 30 or 60) FPS" is completely false, and is partly borne of the misconception that TV or movie FPS is the same as PC game FPS, and partly possibly borne out of a need to justify lower framerates.

[declan]

i conceed defeat

*waves white flag in the air*.... again