ROM translation not illegal?

[declan]

That's insulting. But I guess you're hardly the creative fire behind ZSNES. so you probably wouldn't understand anyway.

Okay.... i guess this is the end huh?
See ya.... have a nice life tcaudilllg2

[tcaudilllg2]

Who said anything about a forum? They've got an editorial page which I've contributed to before.

As for those who are arguing about things "becoming popular again", you're only demonstrating your insecurity and ignorance of the nature of popularity, thinking it has some kind of "magical" quality which it really doesn't.

But are old games really becoming popular again? Doubtful. At least, not enough to compete with newer games. (unless you're talking say, 50,000 sales copies or such) The bottom line is we're probably not going to see any of the as-yet untranslated SNES RPGs released (and there are 30 or more still yet...) released. Bottom line is the game gap is widening, not closing with literally hundreds of Saturn, PSX, GBA, and NDS games not released nor are there any plans to. Add to that the existence of the gaming media which uses its position of influence to lift up or drown stock RPG titles. The facts do not support a resurgence in the popularity of old games in general. (just because Zelda thrived on GBA, with its enormous cultural legacy, means next to nothing for obscure titles which never made it overseas).

I said commercially viable, you nincompoop.

The fact is, actively promoting fan translations of old games is a clear approval of piracy, at a time when the back catalog is becoming sellable again and piracy of old software is counter to the company's interests.

Prove it.

[DancemasterGlenn]

My god, you're obstinate.

[Gil_Hamilton]

Who said anything about a forum? They've got an editorial page which I've contributed to before.

As for those who are arguing about things "becoming popular again", you're only demonstrating your insecurity and ignorance of the nature of popularity, thinking it has some kind of "magical" quality which it really doesn't.

But are old games really becoming popular again? Doubtful. At least, not enough to compete with newer games. (unless you're talking say, 50,000 sales copies or such) The bottom line is we're probably not going to see any of the as-yet untranslated SNES RPGs released (and there are 30 or more still yet...) released. Bottom line is the game gap is widening, not closing with literally hundreds of Saturn, PSX, GBA, and NDS games not released nor are there any plans to. Add to that the existence of the gaming media which uses its position of influence to lift up or drown stock RPG titles. The facts do not support a resurgence in the popularity of old games in general. (just because Zelda thrived on GBA, with its enormous cultural legacy, means next to nothing for obscure titles which never made it overseas).

I said commercially viable, you nincompoop.

The fact is, actively promoting fan translations of old games is a clear approval of piracy, at a time when the back catalog is becoming sellable again and piracy of old software is counter to the company's interests.

Prove it.

No, you!

[tcaudilllg2]

Who said anything about a forum? They've got an editorial page which I've contributed to before.

As for those who are arguing about things "becoming popular again", you're only demonstrating your insecurity and ignorance of the nature of popularity, thinking it has some kind of "magical" quality which it really doesn't.

But are old games really becoming popular again? Doubtful. At least, not enough to compete with newer games. (unless you're talking say, 50,000 sales copies or such) The bottom line is we're probably not going to see any of the as-yet untranslated SNES RPGs released (and there are 30 or more still yet...) released. Bottom line is the game gap is widening, not closing with literally hundreds of Saturn, PSX, GBA, and NDS games not released nor are there any plans to. Add to that the existence of the gaming media which uses its position of influence to lift up or drown stock RPG titles. The facts do not support a resurgence in the popularity of old games in general. (just because Zelda thrived on GBA, with its enormous cultural legacy, means next to nothing for obscure titles which never made it overseas).

I said commercially viable, you nincompoop.

The fact is, actively promoting fan translations of old games is a clear approval of piracy, at a time when the back catalog is becoming sellable again and piracy of old software is counter to the company's interests.

Prove it.

No, you!

You're only saying that because you have no proof at all. Do I? I know that the hardcore RPG gamer base in the states numbers about 5-600,000 people. Assessing the real potential of the market would be very difficult, although it's a safe bet that the sequel of a big-budget title, and that the people who bought the former will buy the latter. Even then, a minority of Americans play games regularly, chiefly because gaming is not a cultural staple of Americans. (going out to the bar or watching the football game is a much bigger deal for us...) For every non-cultural staple you can put half the market in the "maybe" category, because the ratio between traditionalist and reform minded people is 1:1. (this is what happened to Xenosaga, which angered traditionalists on a wide scale; it's not called "the most pretentious game ever" for nothing). You can also go ahead and subtract the sports game sales from the market in general, because it's only the people who watch the game who buy the sports titles. (regular sports gamers are not "mainstream" gamers; a visit to any used games store proves this: the sports titles are on average 50% cheaper than non-sports titles, reflecting lower demand). That leaves you only about half the regular gamer population willing to take a chance on an old game, by my estimate. This half has limited funds and lots of choices: should I buy XYZ new game with top notch graphics and "cool" characters for $39.99; or should I for that price buy five or six used games that may or may not be good, and that I've quite frankly never heard of? Probably some 80% or better of these gamers (of which we're talking about 4 million people, given typical sales for Final Fantasy which just about all regular gamers buy -- again, cut that in half because FF is an established property now. (FFVI only sold like, 600,000 copies US back in the 90s?) are going to opt for the new game over the old ones. So 20% of two million is... oh boy, 400,000 for the lot of the rest of 'em.... (unless it's icarus, zelda, megaman, or someone else we've ALREADY heard about and was long ago translated)).

No, there will be no oldies revolution in the near future, not in the States at least. (do you think for a moment that MSX games will ever find their way? Not the way things are now, they won't; but for that matter, MSX games don't offer much beyond what is available elsewhere). On the other hand these old games might be an extra $20 million at the end of the fiscal year, and could mean the difference between red and black ink for their publisher. All the more reason to official endorsement of fan trans, which would mean those companies basically get FREE MONEY.

[Deathlike2]

Who said anything about a forum? They've got an editorial page which I've contributed to before.

As for those who are arguing about things "becoming popular again", you're only demonstrating your insecurity and ignorance of the nature of popularity, thinking it has some kind of "magical" quality which it really doesn't.

But are old games really becoming popular again? Doubtful. At least, not enough to compete with newer games. (unless you're talking say, 50,000 sales copies or such) The bottom line is we're probably not going to see any of the as-yet untranslated SNES RPGs released (and there are 30 or more still yet...) released. Bottom line is the game gap is widening, not closing with literally hundreds of Saturn, PSX, GBA, and NDS games not released nor are there any plans to. Add to that the existence of the gaming media which uses its position of influence to lift up or drown stock RPG titles. The facts do not support a resurgence in the popularity of old games in general. (just because Zelda thrived on GBA, with its enormous cultural legacy, means next to nothing for obscure titles which never made it overseas).

I said commercially viable, you nincompoop.

The fact is, actively promoting fan translations of old games is a clear approval of piracy, at a time when the back catalog is becoming sellable again and piracy of old software is counter to the company's interests.

You can't really say it is "clear approval". It is more like silent approval. They can/will exercise their power at any time.

I'm starting to think some people completely overestimate the demand for a game being translated.

Crying to another forum however is being retarded though.

[Nightcrawler]

I'm starting to think some people completely overestimate the demand for a game being translated.

Probably true. This discussion is taking place in the emulation and ROM hacking community, a group of X thousand people where translations and retro gaming are in more demand than new games to some degree. So, they are certainly in high demand here. Unfortunately, our X thousand of people amount to very little in the big picture. Who cares what say 10,000 want when 500,000 want something else?

[Deathlike2]

I'm starting to think some people completely overestimate the demand for a game being translated.

Probably true. This discussion is taking place in the emulation and ROM hacking community, a group of X thousand people where translations and retro gaming are in more demand than new games to some degree. So, they are certainly in high demand here. Unfortunately, our X thousand of people amount to very little in the big picture. Who cares what say 10,000 want when 500,000 want something else?

Yes, that's the business sense that these people forgetting about. If the demand for say Mother 3 was at the millions, well by god they would have created the translation!

Don't those fan who want those translations try those lame online petitions? I've never seen any actual effort (like sending e-mails to those companies), so I'm guessing that the demand isn't as high as fans of a game are leading us to believe.

[Tallgeese]

Nintendo Power did a multipage spread about the SNES one.
And after Tales of Destiny, there was a strong fanbase looking for ToP PS, which Namco politely told to go fuck itself. If I recall, their exact words were that Americans couldn't understand ToP.

I thought it was well known that Namco Japan are apparently a bunch of xenophobic twats?

(Seriously... JRPGs do not require a lot of brainpower to process, unless they are painfully vague or their plot resembles Luna.)

[I.S.T.]

Nintendo Power did a multipage spread about the SNES one.
And after Tales of Destiny, there was a strong fanbase looking for ToP PS, which Namco politely told to go fuck itself. If I recall, their exact words were that Americans couldn't understand ToP.

I thought it was well known that Namco Japan are apparently a bunch of xenophobic twats?

(Seriously... JRPGs do not require a lot of brainpower to process.)

Except for the Xeno series' and FF7 due to its' shitty translation(JENOVA CELLS, ANYONE?! The fact that they kept using that in FF7:AC was so, so stupid).

[Tallgeese]

Nintendo Power did a multipage spread about the SNES one.
And after Tales of Destiny, there was a strong fanbase looking for ToP PS, which Namco politely told to go fuck itself. If I recall, their exact words were that Americans couldn't understand ToP.

I thought it was well known that Namco Japan are apparently a bunch of xenophobic twats?

(Seriously... JRPGs do not require a lot of brainpower to process.)

Except for the Xeno series' and FF7 due to its' shitty translation(JENOVA CELLS, ANYONE?! The fact that they kept using that in FF7:AC was so, so stupid).

I corrected myself in the middle of you posting, specifically thinking of Xeno series, ironically. Note this new part:

(Seriously... JRPGs do not require a lot of brainpower to process, unless they are painfully vague or their plot resembles Luna.)

Xenosaga mainly required thought for the first two games since we didn't get the full story. Once 3 rolled around, that's it, most mystery went kaput.

[Agozer]

Sony had to strongarm Namco just to get Xenosaga II here. No XSIII in sight.

[Tallgeese]

Ha, what was Namco's excuse this time?

[Johan_H]

Didn't they mean it more like "the americans won't understand it cuz it has like anime and stuffs" rather than "foreigners are stupid".

[I.S.T.]

Nintendo Power did a multipage spread about the SNES one.
And after Tales of Destiny, there was a strong fanbase looking for ToP PS, which Namco politely told to go fuck itself. If I recall, their exact words were that Americans couldn't understand ToP.

I thought it was well known that Namco Japan are apparently a bunch of xenophobic twats?

(Seriously... JRPGs do not require a lot of brainpower to process.)

Except for the Xeno series' and FF7 due to its' shitty translation(JENOVA CELLS, ANYONE?! The fact that they kept using that in FF7:AC was so, so stupid).

I corrected myself in the middle of you posting, specifically thinking of Xeno series, ironically. Note this new part:

(Seriously... JRPGs do not require a lot of brainpower to process, unless they are painfully vague or their plot resembles Luna.)

Xenosaga mainly required thought for the first two games since we didn't get the full story. Once 3 rolled around, that's it, most mystery went kaput.

No, no. 3 still requires thought. You see, the mindnumbing stupidity of Shion inspires all sorts of thoughts.

For example: "Jesus Christ, who hit her with the Cunt Stick?!"

[grinvader]

That's insulting. But I guess you're hardly the creative fire behind ZSNES. so you probably wouldn't understand anyway.

Okay.... i guess this is the end huh?
See ya.... have a nice life tcaudilllg2

Please don't try to predict my (re)actions unless your psychic skills reach Nachdom. ^_^

It's quite a nice reply to my post, if you look at it. Banning would be ludicrously overreactive of me.
I'll just counter with awesome

Code: Select all

%macro awesome 1-*
  push edx
%rep %0
  xor edx,edx
  mov eax,[%1]
  div dword[%1+4]
  mov [%1],edx
  %rotate 1
  or [%1],eax
  cmp eax,1
  je %%exit
  %rotate -1
  sub eax,[%1]
  adc dword[%1],0
  jnz %%exit
  %rotate 1
%endrep
%%exit
  pop edx
%endmacro

... "you probably wouldn't understand anyway."

[tcaudilllg2]

Didn't they mean it more like "the americans won't understand it cuz it has like anime and stuffs" rather than "foreigners are stupid".

I think they meant the whole "Dhaos was not necessarily evil" bit. Kids these days get it, but back in '94 a bad guy was a bad guy.

The internet has changed America profoundly since then.

It's quite a nice reply to my post, if you look at it. Banning would be ludicrously overreactive of me.

Hey, you insulted me first.

No I don't understand the awesome... the % signs in particular have me perplexed.

[I.S.T.]

Didn't they mean it more like "the americans won't understand it cuz it has like anime and stuffs" rather than "foreigners are stupid".

I think they meant the whole "Dhaos was not necessarily evil" bit. Kids these days get it, but back in '94 a bad guy was a bad guy.

The internet has changed America profoundly since then.

A. More than just the Internet, buddy.

B. We're talking about the TOP remake on the PS1. That was released in Japan in 98/99.

[funkyass]

That's the problem with taking things to their logical conclusion, and with making assumptions which were unstated in the proposal. And no, you do not need to make a copy of a game at all to perform a translation, save in your own computer's memory. Besides, Berne was again, not time-scalable and is obsolete given modern technology.

I guess thats true. You don't need to make a copy of a entire game, just it's script.

regardless, you still need perrmission of the copyright holder for a translation to be legal, despite the delusions you seem to think gives you a workable legal defence.

[sweener2001]

i mostly liked the part where he talked about gaming not being a main part of our culture.

someone needs to look around. 10,000,000 WoW players, CoD4 and Halo3 players in the millions, big time PS titles going platinum in less than a month, and the Wii is still not in stock in stores. not to mention the broken families and struggling young marriages.

why is this still happening? he's just talking out of his butt now.

[Gil_Hamilton]

You're only saying that because you have no proof at all. Do I?

No.

And you're ignoring what I'm actually saying in favor of a more tightly focused version.


Average Joe: "Hey, Wesayso Corp says pirating SpiffyJOnlyGame3 is okay. I guess it's okay to pirate games like SpiffyGameOnWiiVirtualConsole now."
Wesayso: "Wait, we didn't say that!"
Average Joe: "Cool! Free games!"

[Tallgeese]

Didn't they mean it more like "the americans won't understand it cuz it has like anime and stuffs" rather than "foreigners are stupid".

I think they meant the whole "Dhaos was not necessarily evil" bit. Kids these days get it, but back in '94 a bad guy was a bad guy.

The internet has changed America profoundly since then.

Lolno.

[Joe Camacho]

i mostly liked the part where he talked about gaming not being a main part of our culture.

someone needs to look around. 10,000,000 WoW players, CoD4 and Halo3 players in the millions, big time PS titles going platinum in less than a month, and the Wii is still not in stock in stores. not to mention the broken families and struggling young marriages.

why is this still happening? he's just talking out of his butt now.

But you know what's wrong with those games, my friend? They are american games, and from what I have read from this guy, those games aren't his thing.

[Deathlike2]

That's the problem with taking things to their logical conclusion, and with making assumptions which were unstated in the proposal. And no, you do not need to make a copy of a game at all to perform a translation, save in your own computer's memory. Besides, Berne was again, not time-scalable and is obsolete given modern technology.

I guess thats true. You don't need to make a copy of a entire game, just it's script.

regardless, you still need perrmission of the copyright holder for a translation to be legal, despite the delusions you seem to think gives you a workable legal defence.

I'm starting to think the zboard is a ground for the op's randomized stupidity/rants or "the world according to tcaudilllg2".

I should take it back that warning, a bitchslapping is in order.

[tcaudilllg2]

All I get from this is that if Nintendo decided to make some kinda move against the scene, there would be a lot of betrayals around here. My understand of human nature is that acute, at least.

Apparently you haven't heard that the Attorney General is trying to link software piracy to terrorism.... That's never been done before and it is the beginning of a change in attitude towards copyright infringement.

I've made my case, even if I don't have the organization to prove it has been made. In any case, I'm done with this thread. I am this certain though: there are many wolves in sheep's clothing about.