Beggar Prince: How I would have done it differently

[tcaudilllg2]

First off, let me say that I've no interest in selling or distributing old console games. I do, however, have opinions about the way the Beggar Prince product was handled, and how I'd do it differently.

I respect the company for trying something that had, quite frankly, never been done before. (to my knowledge) I know of several team efforts to create console games for older systems, but this is the first I'm aware of that attempted to make a profit.

First off, the price. $40.00 is too much for a game that old: $40 is not easy to come by (it is a day's wages at minimum) and newer games with top notch graphics compete for the same price. Add to that the mediocre supply (2000 units?) when demand is probably three times that. A better idea would have been to host the ROM for download on a website, and offer a cartridge (with the technology used in homebrew models) as an option. As it is, the game is little more than a collectable with no appeal beyond that range. A look at Gametap reveals what the game is really worth: titles released in the same period are today retailing for about $10. (that's for download access, without a physical storage medium) Had it been retailed for the same by providing the ROM, sales would have probably been enough to more than justify further efforts along the same vein.

[corronchilejano]

1. They're aiming for retro gamers, some which are also mentally retroed.
2. Get a blog.

[Deathlike2]

He has a blog , unfortunately

[Joe Camacho]

A what the fuck, what do you what to discuss?

[tcaudilllg2]

Isn't it obvious? I want to discuss where the fledgling retro-console industry could go from here.

For example, wouldn't it be a good idea to sell ROMs of translated games using the Gametap download model? There is definitely interest in seeing the game gap closed (for RPGs, anyway) from a professional vantagepoint. But will the potential be exploited? $40 is too much for a non-PS2 quality game: offering non-storage medium distribution would cut the costs considerably and broaden the product audience.

[byuu]

A what the fuck, what do you what to discuss?

All of his posts seem to basically boil down to discussions about and correlations with analytical psychology, his hero seeming to be Carl Jung.

Personally, I think he's just screwing with us. Some form of MENSA trolling or something.

[corronchilejano]

You're right I mean, selling games for old consoles *cough*Virtual Console*cough* is an unexplored terrain. Better yet, improving them with the new knowledge and programming techniques *cough*XBL, PSN, WW*cough* should make profit.

Sorry, I have a cold. [/makingfunofyourdenseness]

[Deathlike2]

A what the fuck, what do you what to discuss?

All of his posts seem to basically boil down to discussions about and correlations with analytical psychology, his hero seeming to be Carl Jung.

Personally, I think he's just screwing with us. Some form of MENSA trolling or something.

He's not screwing with us. I think he's serious. The difference being that the intended (or unintended, depending how you look at it) audience to his rants doesn't give a fuck.

[grinvader]

$40 is not easy to come by (it is a day's wages at minimum)

Hahahaha





More like around 2 hours, 14 minutes and 21 seconds of a real job with real money (not US peso).

[Agozer]

US peso

[odditude]

$40 is not easy to come by (it is a day's wages at minimum)

Hahahaha





More like around 2 hours, 14 minutes and 21 seconds of a real job with real money (not US peso).

Less than two hours here even WITH US pesos.

[I.S.T.]

$40 is not easy to come by (it is a day's wages at minimum)

Hahahaha





More like around 2 hours, 14 minutes and 21 seconds of a real job with real money (not US peso).

If you're poor, 40 bucks is sure as hell hard to come by!

I should know. I'm poor enough to be on Government Assistance, bitches!

[corronchilejano]

Considering the gap between my nation's currency and the dollar has been steadily growing smaller, It has become quite afordable. 3 hours worth of my salary without any commisions.

[DancemasterGlenn]

Yay, Batman is back!

[Gil_Hamilton]

First off, let me say that I've no interest in selling or distributing old console games. I do, however, have opinions about the way the Beggar Prince product was handled, and how I'd do it differently.

Would doing it differently involve you knowing anything at all about the process?

First off, the price. $40.00 is too much for a game that old: $40 is not easy to come by (it is a day's wages at minimum) and newer games with top notch graphics compete for the same price. Add to that the mediocre supply (2000 units?) when demand is probably three times that.

You've just contradicted yourself.
The cost is NOT too high if demand massively outstrips supply. In fact, it indicates that the cost was too LOW for the production run.

And most of these such projects are limited-run. There's not enough demand to justify a true production run. How many EPROMs do YOU want to solder?

A look at Gametap reveals what the game is really worth: titles released in the same period are today retailing for about $10.

Non-sports titles released in the last 2 years?

[tcaudilllg2]

I could ridicule the lot of you for reacting to your impulse to make me look bad, and thus missing the point of my arguement. But that would be a waste of time.

Who is Batman?

Anyone who thinks Virtual Console will ever be more than a generation milking system for old classics doesn't understand Nintendo's marketing philosophy. Not heard of PSN or "WW", but I'll look into it.

Apparently Gil has no concept of demand potential. I shouldn't have to say this, but if most people interested in a product cannot afford to budget enough for it, then the actual sales of the product will be below potential. The optimal selling point is always the highest price that the maximum potential audience for the product is willing to pay for it: one must balance profit per unit with with the wallet potential of buyers at large. (by your logic, Gil, the PS3 should have been a runaway success).

[corronchilejano]

I could ridicule the lot of you for reacting to your impulse to make me look bad, and thus missing the point of my arguement. But that would be a waste of time.

We believe you are a waste of time.

Who is Batman?

According to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman, his name is Bruce Wayne.

Anyone who thinks Virtual Console will ever be more than a generation milking system for old classics doesn't understand Nintendo's marketing philosophy.

And just what the heck is making a game for an older console? It's harder to program, it has a more narrow audience, and it looks like crap by today's standards. You're just milking away people's need to feel the old shit can still keep up! And I know a lot of suckers that'll pay 40 bucks for it, since they owned a Genesis and now they have jobs.

Apparently Gil has no concept of demand potential. I shouldn't have to say this, but if most people interested in a product cannot afford to budget enough for it, then the actual sales of the product will be below potential. The optimal selling point is always the highest price that the maximum potential audience for the product is willing to pay for it: one must balance profit per unit with with the wallet potential of buyers at large. (by your logic, Gil, the PS3 should have been a runaway success).

So, are you a retrogamer? How many consoles do you own? How much do you pay for your games? The concept of a "serious" collector/retrogamer exists, and the pathetic followers of the Dreamcast are a solid proof. People that pay 40s for games made for "dead" consoles.

[tcaudilllg2]

I buy my games used. Yes there are "hardcore" retrogamers, and they number in the low thousands per system. It's not surprising the DC has survived because it has Windows installed on it and thus, is a dedicated computer. (same reason XBOX is still going strong)

If I play an RPG, I play it for the story. I wouldn't even buy a non-RPG retro that was more than $5.00. (and then it'd better have RPG elements) Bring on your professional SNES/Genesis/PSX/Gameboy/etc. translations; I'll play them all, but they'd better be priced cheap or I won't buy them.

Virtual console has been out for two years now and its offerings leave a lot to be desired. We'll see if it survives the recession....

Nor do I want classic Nintendo censorship marring my RPG experience.

[byuu]

Who is Batman?

This is Batman:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IK_qMvoM2kU

Anyone who thinks Virtual Console will ever be more than a generation milking system for old classics doesn't understand Nintendo's marketing philosophy.

I think the VC is great, but someone who is not me, and who is not developing an emulator that might draw the ire of Nintendo's legal department, had this to say when asked:

"The Virtual Console is proof that a sucker is born every minute.

$10 for a DRM-protected copy of a ten year old game, hacked into an emulator that makes NESticle look good, that I can only play on my Wii, that I'm not even allowed to play off of my memory stick because Nintendo doesn't trust me? That will be worthless as soon as the Wii is discontinued? For a game I already purchased for $50, and possibly even still own the cart to? That I can download in two minutes and use anywhere I damn well please? And due to licensing, they'll never even be able to offer 1/20th of the games available for said system? And I get to wait week after week like a sucker, hoping for the game I really want? Hell yes, sign me the fuck up!"

[Tallgeese]

US peso

This joke is retarded and only idiots find it funny, sorry to say.

[Gil_Hamilton]

Apparently Gil has no concept of demand potential. I shouldn't have to say this, but if most people interested in a product cannot afford to budget enough for it, then the actual sales of the product will be below potential. The optimal selling point is always the highest price that the maximum potential audience for the product is willing to pay for it: one must balance profit per unit with with the wallet potential of buyers at large. (by your logic, Gil, the PS3 should have been a runaway success).

I understand supply and demand. You don't.

The PS3 price was set far too high for the supply available.
Of course, Sony was losing money on each unit sold at launch too.
There simply wasn't a viable pricepoint for the PS3.


The cost of having a run of mask ROMs done, cartridge molds made, and a manufacturing line for cartridge assembly is prohibitively expensive for a hobbyist production for a system approaching 2 decades old.
Hence, supply is inherently limited due to the amount of time the author can justifiably spend soldering EPROMs to circuit boards, screwing cartridge shells together, stuffing inserts into boxes, and how many copies of Sonic the Hedgehog he can scrounge up to steal cart shells from.

As you stated, demand far outstripped supply at 40 dollars.
As supply is limited, the price was NOT set too high. It was a complete sell -out. And there's a second run coming, too.



I would agree that a free ROM image should be offered, as it's worked with several other homebrew titles(and will likely show up any day now regardless).
But it's up to the author to decide, and many homebrew titles have been quite successful on both sides of the ROM image issue.





The fact is, you know next to nothing of the market you're discussing.
If you went into AtariAge or DigitPress explaining how a homebrew title wasn't worth more than ten dollars, you'd be flamed off the board.
Probably by some of the homebrew authors you were "advising," who actually considered their labor and materials costs instead of just "what a Genesis game costs on GameTap."




Oh, BTW...

Anyone who thinks Virtual Console will ever be more than a generation milking system for old classics doesn't understand Nintendo's marketing philosophy. Not heard of PSN or "WW", but I'll look into it.

WW = WiiWare. It's XBLA/PSN-style content for the Wii. Original titles that make use of the Wii's capabilities instead of emulations of older systems.

And if you pay attention to the VC release list, you'll see that there's a LOT of titles that have made it out which people don't usually file as classics and have long been forgotten by the masses. Like Zanac. Which you should buy. VC has even seen games that never had American releases initially.

[Tallgeese]

Hint to the brain-damaged maker of this topic: When demand outstrips supply, guess what happens? You can raise price to whatever people are willing to afford! Considering that Beggar Prince sold out, as Gil stated, guess what? PRICE WASN'T TOO HIGH. You fail by your own logic. Dear God, do you ever shut up?

[corronchilejano]

US peso

This joke is retarded and only idiots find it funny, sorry to say.

I can't believe I missed that...



That's better.

[Tallgeese]

The joke is still pretty retarded, reference or not. In fact, I question if the reference only makes it more dumb.

[Clements]

$40 is not easy to come by (it is a day's wages at minimum)

Wow. I was thinking of emigrating to the USA for a better, wealthier life, but if $40 is a day's wages there, than I could probably just claim Income Support over here and get roughly that for doing no work at all.