PAL vs NTSC? What's better for SNES Emulation?

[krille]

Good afternoon!

I've been enjoying ZSNES for about a decade now, but I've never really been sure what roms to get. I've usually gone for (as in U.S. English) versions quite arbitrarily. As they've always seemed popular and they're NTSC which is 60hz of course which matches today's 60hz LCD computer screens well. But there is also the [E] (as in European English) version of the roms, which is PAL. For the SNES, you don't really have much choice (AFAIK), you get PAL roms for your PAL SNES, etc.

But what about emulators? What's better to get for your 'computer' (ie ZSNES or SNES9x emulator, whichever you prefer)? U.S. NTSC roms or European PAL roms?

Thanks!

~ Kris

[franpa]

U.S. roms are the best to go for, because like you said, they run at 60hz which is a far more common refresh rate then 50hz. there are probably some other reasons, but so far, most emulators prefer the US or Japan versions of consoles.

[I.S.T.]

*Insert franpa alert here*

It depends on the game. The emulator runs all versions well, but the problem is some games got fucked up in their PAL versions. They were often slower, and had big black bars on the screen to fill up the extra space due to the higher resolution PAL has.

Not all ports from NTSC to PAL had this happen, but many do.

[krille]

Alright, so it's not only the refresh rate but the games were even coded for NTSC then?

(This would be more because of Japan's use of NTSC than NTSC being the U.S. standard, right?)

But shouldn't the PAL versions render at a higher resolution? I mean, native NTSC is 480i while native PAL is 576i. At least for non-black-barred games?
edit: By this I mean, shouldn't there be inherent advantages to a higher resolution such as either seeing more of the map (most 2D games) or better graphics (most 3D games)?

[Johan_H]

But shouldn't the PAL versions render at a higher resolution? I mean, native NTSC is 480i while native PAL is 576i. At least for non-black-barred games?
edit: By this I mean, shouldn't there be inherent advantages to a higher resolution such as either seeing more of the map (most 2D games) or better graphics (most 3D games)?

There should, but no SNES games take advantage of the extra PAL lines AFAIK (could the SNES even do that?) My advise would be to stay away from PAL ROMs as they run slower than the developers intended.

For the SNES, you don't really have much choice (AFAIK), you get PAL roms for your PAL SNES, etc.

There are ways around that as well.
http://home.freeuk.net/markk/Consoles/SNES_Lockout.txt
http://home.freeuk.net/markk/Consoles/S ... Switch.txt

[Hyos]

There is one noteworthy game, Terranigma, that was only released in Japan and in Europe. I have never seen a translation for the japanese NTSC ROM, so the only way to play it in English is the european PAL ROM.

For the rest of the games the US version should be better.

[blackmyst]

But shouldn't the PAL versions render at a higher resolution? I mean, native NTSC is 480i while native PAL is 576i. At least for non-black-barred games?
edit: By this I mean, shouldn't there be inherent advantages to a higher resolution such as either seeing more of the map (most 2D games) or better graphics (most 3D games)?

There should, but no SNES games take advantage of the extra PAL lines AFAIK (could the SNES even do that?)

There's Super Mario Allstars and Killer Instinct that use the extra lines to show more graphics, and I think Mario Kart and some of the DKC games. There are probably more.

[Johan_H]

There's Super Mario Allstars and Killer Instinct that use the extra lines to show more graphics, and I think Mario Kart and some of the DKC games. There are probably more.

Sweet! Rare putting more effort into the PAL versions makes sense I suppose.

EDIT: I just checked and the black borders in Killer Instinct at 50hz are as big as in all other games. Shouldn't it fill more of the screen if it's higher res?

[blackmyst]

They should be smaller (not gone completely). Try and check more precisely.

You can just make screenshots in Zsnes and compare. "Enhanced" PAL games run at 256x239 as opposed to NTSC's 256x224. And yes, it shows all that on screen.

Hmm, seems like SMW actually used it, too. I didn't know that. Funnily enough, SMW2 did not, neither did any of the DKC games unlike I thought.

[krille]

Someone should compile a list of which format is best for what games.

[franpa]

How many SNES emulators are good at emulating the PAL SNES?

[blackmyst]

Someone should compile a list of which format is best for what games.

There really is no point. You get 15 extra lines (whoopdeedoo) in a few games (it would surprise me if it was more than a handful), but even then, it just doesn't weigh up against the disadvantages. If you disagree, of course you're free to spend the time compiling such a list. ;)

[Gil_Hamilton]

Someone should compile a list of which format is best for what games.

There really is no point. You get 15 extra lines (whoopdeedoo) in a few games (it would surprise me if it was more than a handful), but even then, it just doesn't weigh up against the disadvantages. If you disagree, of course you're free to spend the time compiling such a list.

There's always the possibility of european-developed games.
I can see them being optimized for 50Hz.

[I.S.T.]

How many SNES emulators are good at emulating the PAL SNES?

...Did you not read my post?

[krille]

Someone should compile a list of which format is best for what games.

There really is no point. You get 15 extra lines (whoopdeedoo) in a few games (it would surprise me if it was more than a handful), but even then, it just doesn't weigh up against the disadvantages. If you disagree, of course you're free to spend the time compiling such a list.

There's always the possibility of european-developed games.
I can see them being optimized for 50Hz.

UK-based Rareware has already been mentioned. If Japanese developers put the most effort into the NTSC versions, shouldn't European developers do the very opposite?

[Gil_Hamilton]

Someone should compile a list of which format is best for what games.

There really is no point. You get 15 extra lines (whoopdeedoo) in a few games (it would surprise me if it was more than a handful), but even then, it just doesn't weigh up against the disadvantages. If you disagree, of course you're free to spend the time compiling such a list.

There's always the possibility of european-developed games.
I can see them being optimized for 50Hz.

UK-based Rareware has already been mentioned. If Japanese developers put the most effort into the NTSC versions, shouldn't European developers do the very opposite?

It depends on the target.

Rare's games were very much intended for a global release, and developed under Nintendo's rule. They had to be optimized for NTSC first, though Rare's local interests likely ensured the 50 FPS version was properly adapted isntead of a squished, sluggish, glitchy mess.


But, say, Asterix?
That was developed first and foremost for Europe. THOSE are the games most likely to be wrong on NTSC.
Of course, Asterix never HAD a non-Europe release, making it a poor choice of example. Whoops.

[F-3582]

Good ole Infogrames... They were infamous for making insanely hard games in any possible language back then. And North&South, one of the coolest games ported to the C64 ever

[franpa]

North&South on the NES is indeed A brilliant game

[Tallgeese]

There's an IPS made to turn the English PAL Terranigma back to NTSC. I have observed no bugs from this.

Yet I find it weird to think going from NTSC->PAL->NTSC was so simple...

[Awakened]

That is a nice patch. My .srm from the original PAL ROM works with it, and scrolling is much smoother. Though ZSNES says it's a bad ROM at start up

[snkcube]

Using a patch will render the ROM as bad.

[creaothceann]

Unless you go the extra mile and correct the internal checksum with the patch, too.