Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band

[grinvader]

I just really hate the idea of enslavement.

[Panzer88]

heh, so I wasn't the only one who saw that.

[Tallgeese]

I just really hate the idea of enslavement.

Lincohn only emanicipated the slaves for political reasons... mainly to trick Europeans into thinking that the war was about slavery. He succeeded.

[FirebrandX]

I just really hate the idea of enslavement.

Lincohn only emanicipated the slaves for political reasons... mainly to trick Europeans into thinking that the war was about slavery. He succeeded.

Says you. Sounds like just another groundless attack on past historical figures for the sake of controversy and conspiracy mongering. You wouldn't by chance happen to be liberal would you?

[Verdauga Greeneyes]

You wouldn't by chance happen to be liberal would you?

And that sounds like stereotyping. But I would like to see him support his statement.

[gllt]

how about this is the internet and if one person wants to believe there is a political system and parties and another wants to believe we're being ruled by dimension shifting illuminati enochian magicians they can both shut their faces and download bsnes

no one cares

in other news, hey byuu

any chance of turbo button support and customizable hotkeys for any function

[Snark]

they can both shut their faces and download bsnes

Whassamatta you? Shaddap you face! Seriously though gllt, how about setting the example?

I just really hate the idea of enslavement.

Lincohn only emanicipated the slaves for political reasons... mainly to trick Europeans into thinking that the war was about slavery. He succeeded.

Says you. Sounds like just another groundless attack on past historical figures for the sake of controversy and conspiracy mongering. You wouldn't by chance happen to be liberal would you?

And I found that accusations of "conspiracies" are pretty common whenever someone doesn't follow the braindead philosophical zombies mainstream conscensus. Generally accompanied by a total lack of arguments too...kinda like accusations of communism back in the days. Works pretty well you gotta admit, power in number.

So I guess they (the zombs) thought for example the gulf war really WAS about babies in incubators... I mean the big media said so and anyone who thought otherwise at the time was probably accused of "conspiracy mongering" by the collective bee-hive "mind".

[Gil_Hamilton]

I just really hate the idea of enslavement.

Lincohn only emanicipated the slaves for political reasons... mainly to trick Europeans into thinking that the war was about slavery. He succeeded.

Says you. Sounds like just another groundless attack on past historical figures for the sake of controversy and conspiracy mongering. You wouldn't by chance happen to be liberal would you?

I consider myself moderate. And by that I mean I side with the Democrats as much as the Republicans(the party of Lincoln, the party of Reconstruction, enemies of all southerners everywhere!... well, until the Democrats got too liberal, then we decided to let bygones be bygones and vote for the party we agreed with instead of against the one we historically hated).


It IS a fact that the Emancipation Proclamation was mere showmanship.
It ONLY freed slaves in states "currently in rebellion against the union."
You can imagine how many Confederate states respected Lincoln's rule.

The slaves in states that stayed with the US remained slaves until later.


It DID give the US stronger international support, as those nations that were supporting the Confederacy started backing off, lest they be seen as supporting slavery.

It ALSO made an unpopular war even MORE unpopular in the Union, since it was now cast as a war about slavery and not about preserving the union.






Wild tangent!

Personally, I think the Civil War shouldn't have happened.

Some effort should've been made at compromise well before things hit the breaking point, instead of people beating each other nearly to death on the floor of Congress while the states censored mail coming from the other side of the debate. Not exaggeration there.

And had there been any room for a middle ground instead of everyone swinging to one extreme or another, slavery likely would have passed away naturally well before the Civil War. It was already in decline.


Failing that... the right to secede is the fundamental point behind the USA's founding. Lincoln's argument that states CAN'T secede from the Union was fundamentally flawed.


Of course, far be it from me to hail the CSA and roast the USA.
The Declaration of Independence ALSO places a burden upon those seceding to justify their secession and lay out a thoughtful, well-written justification.
MOST of the Civil War Declarations of Secession are basically a long-winded form of "SLAVERY RULES! FUCK LINCOLN! YEAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!" Sometimes not even THAT much longer.

The CSA DID attempt to smooth relations over with the USA as soon as possible, though Lincoln basically told them to fuck off.
The actions before the war started were fairly clear. The southern states didn't really WANT to sever ties with the US, they just couldn't find a way to rebalance the power.

[gllt]

I'm just saying

this isn't just offtopic for bsnes thread
it's drama waiting to happen

c u later guise

[Gil_Hamilton]

I'm just saying

this isn't just offtopic for bsnes thread
it's drama waiting to happen

c u later guise

Indeed it is. But I can't stop myself.

[henke37]

Sounds like we need a split, again.

[DancemasterGlenn]

[alexz721]

I just really hate the idea of enslavement.

Lincohn only emanicipated the slaves for political reasons... mainly to trick Europeans into thinking that the war was about slavery. He succeeded.

Says you. Sounds like just another groundless attack on past historical figures for the sake of controversy and conspiracy mongering. You wouldn't by chance happen to be liberal would you?

I consider myself moderate. And by that I mean I side with the Democrats as much as the Republicans(the party of Lincoln, the party of Reconstruction, enemies of all southerners everywhere!... well, until the Democrats got too liberal, then we decided to let bygones be bygones and vote for the party we agreed with instead of against the one we historically hated).


It IS a fact that the Emancipation Proclamation was mere showmanship.
It ONLY freed slaves in states "currently in rebellion against the union."
You can imagine how many Confederate states respected Lincoln's rule.

The slaves in states that stayed with the US remained slaves until later.


It DID give the US stronger international support, as those nations that were supporting the Confederacy started backing off, lest they be seen as supporting slavery.

It ALSO made an unpopular war even MORE unpopular in the Union, since it was now cast as a war about slavery and not about preserving the union.

You are right that the Emancipation Proclamation was a political move to raise international support. However, you forgot the part where Lincoln pushed for the 13th Amendment - banning slavery everywhere - to be passed prior to being assassinated. No matter what his intentions were during the Civil War, I fully believe he intended to liberate all slaves at some point.

[Panzer88]

did you guys know that JFK didn't really go to the moon either? it's true!

[grinvader]

Oh the material.

[Panzer88]

nice sig HA HA HA HA

[Gil_Hamilton]

I just really hate the idea of enslavement.

Lincohn only emanicipated the slaves for political reasons... mainly to trick Europeans into thinking that the war was about slavery. He succeeded.

Says you. Sounds like just another groundless attack on past historical figures for the sake of controversy and conspiracy mongering. You wouldn't by chance happen to be liberal would you?

I consider myself moderate. And by that I mean I side with the Democrats as much as the Republicans(the party of Lincoln, the party of Reconstruction, enemies of all southerners everywhere!... well, until the Democrats got too liberal, then we decided to let bygones be bygones and vote for the party we agreed with instead of against the one we historically hated).


It IS a fact that the Emancipation Proclamation was mere showmanship.
It ONLY freed slaves in states "currently in rebellion against the union."
You can imagine how many Confederate states respected Lincoln's rule.

The slaves in states that stayed with the US remained slaves until later.


It DID give the US stronger international support, as those nations that were supporting the Confederacy started backing off, lest they be seen as supporting slavery.

It ALSO made an unpopular war even MORE unpopular in the Union, since it was now cast as a war about slavery and not about preserving the union.

You are right that the Emancipation Proclamation was a political move to raise international support. However, you forgot the part where Lincoln pushed for the 13th Amendment - banning slavery everywhere - to be passed prior to being assassinated. No matter what his intentions were during the Civil War, I fully believe he intended to liberate all slaves at some point.

Before the war, he had no intention of doing so, though he believed they should be free. It wasn't POSSIBLE before then.

He never would've pushed for the 13th amendment had the Civil War not happened, because, well, it would've started a war.
My guess is he would've continued with the practice to that point of blocking slavery's further expansion.


Of course, after the war, the political landscape was drastically different.



I'm not saying Lincoln supported slavery. Far from it, his well-known abolitionist stance was the final straw that sparked the war(mxied metaphor ahoy!).

Honestly, I think what happened with the Emancipation Proclamation is Lincoln realized he didn't have anything more to lose.
Remember, the Civil War was VERY unpopular, especially after the draft started.

The northern states hadn't wanted to go to war to preserve the Union(if I recall, the general attitude was something along the lines of "the US is better off without those backwards farming slaver hicks"), and they wanted to go to war to free the slaves even less. It's rather obvious why the southern states didn't like the war.

Since he was pressing on with the war ANYWAYS, he may as well go all-out.


He also pressed for the highly unpopular move of integrating the southern states back into the US as quickly and painlessly as possible instead of punishing them with a lengthy reconstruction process and stripping the citizens of their property(with the exception of the slaves, obviously).
If more wars ended this way, we'd have a lot less wars.

[byuu]

"the US is better off without those backwards farming slaver hicks"

That would be kind of cool, actually. Let the south go with a religious theocracy, and the north go with the liberal democrats. Let each philosophy run wild and see which one falls to third-world status first. Of course we'll have to invert California and Alaska for this to work.

He also pressed for the highly unpopular move of integrating the southern states back into the US as quickly and painlessly as possible instead of punishing them with a lengthy reconstruction process and stripping the citizens of their property

Don't we always offer to help after we fuck people's shit up? Like Japan and Iraq?

[Panzer88]

"the US is better off without those backwards farming slaver hicks"

That would be kind of cool, actually. Let the south go with a religious theocracy, and the north go with the liberal democrats. Let each philosophy run wild and see which one falls to third-world status first. Of course we'll have to invert California and Alaska for this to work.

I think the only way the states stays afloat is with both crazy sides. Both would fail separately.

[FirebrandX]

The liberals would fail first, because everybody would be on wellfair with nobody working to pay for it. Then they'd attempt to become a fully communistic state, causing people to flee for the border into the conservative countries, only we wouldn't take them because they'd just try the same crap all over again.

[byuu]

No hopping sides. You pick when you're 18 and that's it ;)

[Panzer88]

if it happened around the time of the civil war, the north would continue with their industrialization albeit a bit slower without all the money from the southern plantations, the south would continue the plantations and be rolling in money but would modernize very slowly. By the time it came time for world war, the north wouldn't have the financial backing and the south would say "screw you we're staying here" the only problem would be if the fight came to them, it might have been to late by that point.

It's a GOOD thing we are still a union even if we hate each other (not north and south, but political camps)

EDIT: damn that 90 second timer sucks balls for editing posts.

[byuu]

EDIT: damn that 90 second timer sucks balls for editing posts.

Yeah it does. Shouldn't need a timer to stealth edit. But yeah, no FTP access yadda yadda :(

[adventure_of_link]

EDIT: damn that 90 second timer sucks balls for editing posts.

Yeah it does. Shouldn't need a timer to stealth edit. But yeah, no FTP access yadda yadda

That's phpBB for ya, xD

[gllt]

you guys are funi