Snes controller progress:

byuu · Post by **byuu** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:25 pm

Neat! And no rush, won't be working on anything until the weekend anyway :/

Johan_H · Post by **Johan_H** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:00 pm

As far as I can tell looking at my controllers in daylight and comparing to the render on both my computer and my brother's laptop:
The green needs to be a bit bluer and just a little bit more saturated. Red and Yellow a tiny bit brighter (Yellow should probably be less red). And in better light conditions I see now that the saturation on the Blue needs to go up a bit as well.

FirebrandX · Post by **FirebrandX** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:07 pm

Thanks yohan, I will make those slight adjustments. Right now I'm having a strange graphics corruption on the renders that doesn't make sense at all. There are sub-pixel size fragments showing up on some pixels, even when I check the images in PSP and zoom in, I can see the fragments. Painting over them doesn't seem to work either. I've never seen this problem before.

FirebrandX · Post by **FirebrandX** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:08 pm

Ok, I've updated the button colors once again and I'm satisfied with them. Finally the controller is approaching acceptable appearance with my OCD, though I keep 2nd guessing my work on the crosspad. I may yet go back and do some tweaking to it.

ShadowFX · Post by **ShadowFX** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:22 pm

byuu wrote:The biggest problem there is that we don't have pictures for the other three/four input devices.

The next problem is that window is absolutely massive. It won't fit nicely with the panel layout I'm using to put all configuration settings in a uniform container window.

And it still doesn't allow for the 'rapid' method of assigning all keys back-to-back. Something I don't support now, but could with an extra button on the capture window like <Assign All Keys> that gets grayed out when you choose the UI config parts.

Okay, I understand. Even so, I made a mockup to show what I was thinking of (I know, it doesn't look near as good as Qt).

I'll let it rest now

FirebrandX · Post by **FirebrandX** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:03 pm

Byuu, here's the latest version you can replace in bsnes:

kick · Post by **kick** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:23 pm

FirebrandX wrote:Byuu, here's the latest version you can replace in bsnes:

Just increase the color saturation a liitle bit and it'll be fine

FirebrandX · Post by **FirebrandX** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:29 pm

On what?

franpa · Post by **franpa** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:37 pm

ShadowFX wrote:
byuu wrote:The biggest problem there is that we don't have pictures for the other three/four input devices.

The next problem is that window is absolutely massive. It won't fit nicely with the panel layout I'm using to put all configuration settings in a uniform container window.

And it still doesn't allow for the 'rapid' method of assigning all keys back-to-back. Something I don't support now, but could with an extra button on the capture window like <Assign All Keys> that gets grayed out when you choose the UI config parts.
Okay, I understand. Even so, I made a mockup to show what I was thinking of (I know, it doesn't look near as good as Qt).

I'll let it rest now

The "assign all" button is nice and I would like to see it some time in a future version of BSNES. annoying the number of mouse clicks you need to perform to assign all the gamepad buttons.

tetsuo55 · Post by **tetsuo55** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:44 pm

FirebrandX is your monitor calibrated?

If it is and its calibrated to D65 that means you need mid-day sunlight(no clouds) to get the right colors.

kick · Post by **kick** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:51 pm

FirebrandX wrote:On what?

On the colored buttons (increasing it by12% looks the best to me,but I'd go with a 10% increase to match the rest of the image)

FYI,my monitor is calibrated (6500K/D65,zero glare,optimal contrast/brightness/light source)

FirebrandX · Post by **FirebrandX** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:13 pm

I'm actually about to dump some money on a new monitor. The samsung 2232bw I currently have is nice, but I want 1900+ res support now. I'm currently looking at the ASUS MK241H which has 2ms and 1920x1200 native res. Reviews have been very positive from customers.

FirebrandX · Post by **FirebrandX** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:30 pm

Ok I boosted the colors by another 20 units (about 8.5%) on the bsnes png version. Let me know if it looks good enough and I'll upload the large jpg version. After that, I'll start uploading wallpaper versions for those that want.

byuu · Post by **byuu** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:32 pm

$300 for a 24" TN panel? Yuck.
http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showd ... 2&p=2&cp=7

Good for gaming, terrible if you're trying to model 3D images and need true 8-bit color and vertical viewing angles.

kick · Post by **kick** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:42 pm

FirebrandX wrote:Ok I boosted the colors by another 20 units (about 8.5%) on the bsnes png version. Let me know if it looks good enough and I'll upload the large jpg version. After that, I'll start uploading wallpaper versions for those that want.

Could you post the two images for a side-by-side comparison?

kick · Post by **kick** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:44 pm

franpa wrote:
ShadowFX wrote:
byuu wrote:The biggest problem there is that we don't have pictures for the other three/four input devices.

The next problem is that window is absolutely massive. It won't fit nicely with the panel layout I'm using to put all configuration settings in a uniform container window.

And it still doesn't allow for the 'rapid' method of assigning all keys back-to-back. Something I don't support now, but could with an extra button on the capture window like <Assign All Keys> that gets grayed out when you choose the UI config parts.
Okay, I understand. Even so, I made a mockup to show what I was thinking of (I know, it doesn't look near as good as Qt).

I'll let it rest now
The "assign all" button is nice and I would like to see it some time in a future version of BSNES. annoying the number of mouse clicks you need to perform to assign all the gamepad buttons.

+1
BSNES + user-friendly controller config = winrar

FitzRoy · Post by **FitzRoy** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:44 pm

I also prefer the current dropdown with scrollable list to a web of buttons and lines. What are you going to do about the multitaps, the controller port selections, the GUI? You'll have 20 tabs and it will all be outside of the main configuration area because it's too much stuff to show as buttons as tabs. At the end of the day, even the location of the buttons doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is that the user knows where he has assigned a certain function. If he has a PC controller that's similar in shape and layout to an SNES one, and he wants to mimic the locations as closely as possible, he can do that from memory or google images. The mouse, he can do with nothing. The super scope's shape has no PC equivalent, so the desire is inapplicable.

Has the word "key" always been in in the "Assign Key..." button? It should just be "Assign..." because you can assign either a button or a key. We don't call keyboard keys buttons and we don't call mouse or joypad buttons keys, so I don't understand the point in specifying "key." And I've yet to understand why users are being greeted with mouse functions on the joypad assignment window. There aren't enough buttons on a mouse to represent the joypad, and even if there were it would be really hard to use.

Johan_H · Post by **Johan_H** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:49 pm

FirebrandX wrote:Ok I boosted the colors by another 20 units (about 8.5%) on the bsnes png version. Let me know if it looks good enough and I'll upload the large jpg version. After that, I'll start uploading wallpaper versions for those that want.

Looks great to me, except the green still looks off somehow, I think it should be bluer still (and subsequently you'd have to make it a bit brighter? Right?)
Anyone else agree?
Yay, wallpapers!

byuu · Post by **byuu** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:52 pm

And I've yet to understand why users are being greeted with mouse functions on the joypad assignment window. There aren't enough buttons on a mouse to represent the joypad, and even if there were it would be really hard to use.

Because it's easier to share the same code for joypad, mouse, scope, justifier and UI assignment. No need to intentionally hide functionality just because it's unusual.

And I've played Super Mario All-Stars fine with a 5-button mouse. It's kind of fun actually.

henke37 · Post by **henke37** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:15 pm

Multitaps is not something people need to worry about when assigning controllers, there is 1+4 joypads(4+4 for the lunatics), nothing more as far as the user cares about on the config scree. The controller port selection doesn't belong in the key mapping at all.

@FirebrandX:
Do you think that you could do a rendering showing the L and R buttons from the side or something, like I suggested? Maybe with the letters mirrored, to show up unmirrored while matching the shape of the main picture.

FirebrandX · Post by **FirebrandX** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:44 pm

Johan_H wrote:
FirebrandX wrote:Ok I boosted the colors by another 20 units (about 8.5%) on the bsnes png version. Let me know if it looks good enough and I'll upload the large jpg version. After that, I'll start uploading wallpaper versions for those that want.
Looks great to me, except the green still looks off somehow, I think it should be bluer still (and subsequently you'd have to make it a bit brighter? Right?)
Anyone else agree?
Yay, wallpapers!

I noticed the same issue about the green, but it seems impossible to reproduce the green from the real button. If I go more blue, the model button just ends up looking even worse. I think it has something to do with light emitted green and reflected green. The human eye is supposedly most sensitive to green, yet at the same time it is supposedly the hardest color to reproduce on a display. In this case again, we're to trying to imitate a green object using light from a display, which just isn't going to look quite right no matter what value I put in.

I may still play around with green tones, but I'm calling the rest of the button colors done. As for the shoulder buttons, I don't want to render a top view of those yet, because I have not finished modeling the holes in the case for them. Down the road I'll render different angles when I've finished the case to my satisfaction.

FirebrandX · Post by **FirebrandX** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:47 pm

byuu wrote:$300 for a 24" TN panel? Yuck.
http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showd ... 2&p=2&cp=7

Good for gaming, terrible if you're trying to model 3D images and need true 8-bit color and vertical viewing angles.

How about a better suggestion then? "Yuck" doesn't really point me in the right direction

byuu · Post by **byuu** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:50 pm

henke37 wrote:Multitaps is not something people need to worry about when assigning controllers, there is 1+4 joypads(4+4 for the lunatics), nothing more as far as the user cares about on the config scree. The controller port selection doesn't belong in the key mapping at all.

The port selection is very important. A lot of planning went into the current setup. The main goal is to allow all useful combinations possible.

Some games want the mouse in port 1, some want it in port 2 (SNES test program vs Mario Paint.) It's also possible to have a mouse in both ports. And even without ManyMouse, this can be utilized via joypad axis mapping.

I fully intend to continue supporting games like d4s' 8-player multi-tap game, so I need eight controllers to configure. Because it's legal to have a multi-tap in port 1, I can't bind joypads 2-5 to a multi-tap in port 2. That'd make no sense.

So why no SS / Justifier in port 1? Because they cannot latch the counter, so no game could ever use them as anything but glorified 2-4 button input devices. Whereas there is no technical reason a multi-tap won't fully work in port 1.

So that'd give us eight joypads + two mice + SS + two justifiers + UI general + UI debugger. Fifteen tabs, way too much.

My current setup even gives one extra advantage: you can have a separate configuration for player two in 2-player mode than for 5-player mode.

How about a better suggestion then? "Yuck" doesn't really point me in the right direction

I have an LG 246WP-BN, which is a P-MVA panel. Seems they are pretty hard to find these days, though.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6824005099
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductRe ... 6824005099

Should also warn that it takes a crazy long time to change resolutions on this thing, but luckily that's not something you do often with LCDs.

ShadowFX · Post by **ShadowFX** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:01 pm

Just wanted to say that the mockup I've come up with is probably all but practical. I'm sure byuu knows best what shoud be used in his emulator. From what I understand, there are so many input peripherals to support, it would indeed be madness to put all those into that tiny window.

Johan_H · Post by **Johan_H** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:13 pm

FirebrandX wrote:I noticed the same issue about the green, but it seems impossible to reproduce the green from the real button. If I go more blue, the model button just ends up looking even worse. I think it has something to do with light emitted green and reflected green. The human eye is supposedly most sensitive to green, yet at the same time it is supposedly the hardest color to reproduce on a display. In this case again, we're to trying to imitate a green object using light from a display, which just isn't going to look quite right no matter what value I put in.

Ah, I see. I tried adjusting it myself before and thought I was just stupid with the values.
Oh, well, it's good enough like this (the button colours that is, the model as a whole is fabulotastic of course).