Buying a netbook; would like some input.

dfreer · Post by **dfreer** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:32 am

I'm in the process of selling my current laptop, and am looking into buying a netbook. Just wanted to see what others thought about these machines, and the people on this forum seem to know all about computer hardware, hope this isn't a noobish post

Greater than 5 hours battery life and less than $600 is my goal. I want to use this for carrying around a college campus to take notes/browse internet/play simple games/watch videos. If the price is cheap enough I would definitely consider going for a better netbook and buying two batteries.

The Asus Eee PC 1000HE is one of the few currently available netbooks I've looked at, with ~7 hrs battery life and the N280 Atom processor I think it's the one I'd pick if I have to choose now. From what I hear, it doesn't include the new motherboard/chipset that allows HD video playback though which would be nice, and it's a single core. The chicklet keyboard seems like a great idea although I've never used one, and the shift key/arrow keys seem to be in an acceptable place for me. Not a big fan of it's look (looks cheap and plastic-y to me), but it's ok.

The Asus Eee PC 1008 looks AMAZING to me, I know it's basically a poor man's mac book air... but I don't care, it's different. And it still uses the N280 Atom processor, I haven't been able to find out about the chipset yet though. I might have to wait around for this laptop and see what kind of battery life it gets.

Asus Eee PC T101H is something I'd really like to try, never had a tablet and a couple of times wished I did (reading comics fullscreen on a rotated tablet). Not sure I'd want to pay more than $600 for it, and it would need to get >5 hours of battery life for me to consider I think.

HP Mini 2140 is a great looking netbook, and the soon to come enhanced resolution screen 1366 x 768 is better than any of the 1024 x 600 Asus screens. It also comes with an express card slot, but it's main drawbacks (much pricer than other netbooks, god awful trackpad, ~2.5 hr battery life, only has the N270) I think will turn me away. I *believe* there is an extended cell battery that offers >5 hours of battery life, but really don't like the battery to stick out the bottom and put pressure on my thigh when I use it.

EDIT: According to laptopmag.com, the HP Mini 2140's flush 3 cell can last ~3.75 hours, while the 6 cell that stupidly sticks out the bottom can last just over 7 hours.

Should I wait for the N3xx series of dual-core atom processors? Should I avoid any of these netbooks? Is there any others I might have missed that I should reconsider?

Thanks for reading guys, any insight would be appreciated

TL;DR - Tell me what netbook I should buy for less than $600/ greater than 5 hr battery life!

Post by **lordmissus** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:18 am

I don't have much (read:none) experience with netbooks, but I hear good things about the MSI wind.

sc0tt10 · Post by **sc0tt10** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:34 pm

I'd say the Samsung NC10, it has a larger keyboard than the others and the battery life is excellent

Clements · Post by **Clements** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:26 pm

I have the Samsung NC10. Was definitely the best value for money at the time I got it. Wonderful little thing. The Asus Eee PC 1000HE is probably faster as it uses the N280 instead of the N270, but is slightly heavier and costs about £50 more. Otherwise, they are mostly the same spec-wise.

FitzRoy · Post by **FitzRoy** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:54 pm

Do any of those use the nVidia Ion chipset? If not, I'd think you'd want to wait for it.

Post by **odditude** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:57 pm

real-world reports say the n280 is not perceptibly faster than the n270, so your purchasing decision shouldn't be based on that.

ion is nice on paper, but it will be a while (3 months min, expected) before it hits market and there will be a sizable bump to cost and a sizable dent in battery life.

i got my girlfriend a eepc901 for xmas; she has no complaints (she has small enough hands that the 901's cramped keyboard is a non-issue for her).

if i were buying one right now, i'd get an eeepc1000he.

dfreer · Post by **dfreer** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:14 pm

odditude wrote:real-world reports say the n280 is not perceptibly faster than the n270, so your purchasing decision shouldn't be based on that.

ion is nice on paper, but it will be a while (3 months min, expected) before it hits market and there will be a sizable bump to cost and a sizable dent in battery life.

FitzRoy wrote:Do any of those use the nVidia Ion chipset? If not, I'd think you'd want to wait for it.

That, along with the Intel GN40, is certainly something: Full 1080p playback (albeit on a 1024x600 screen

), and quite possibly the ability to play my favorite SNES emulator..

However the main thing for me is battery life, so if the Nvidia Ion does dramatically reduce battery life than it's probably not worth waiting around for (although Nvidia Ion + Atom N3xx + ultra mini case would be perfect for a small HTPC!). It would be nice to see if the Intel GN40 reduces battery life significantly as well, but no current netbooks carry either chipset.

As for the N280 vs N270, I've heard that as well. I've also heard that it can playback 720p WMV files without the GN40 Chipset, and one benchmark showing some real world improvements. The main thing is that the N280 consumes 2W versus 2.5W in the N270, hopefully making for a longer lasting battery. It's not a MAJOR factor in my decision but I think it's something to consider.

sc0tt10 wrote:I'd say the Samsung NC10, it has a larger keyboard than the others and the battery life is excellent

Thanks for bringing that up, I looked it over before but forgot to mention it. I'd be hard pressed if I had to choose from currently available laptops between the 1000HE and the Samsung NC10 upon further review, here's why:

The 1000HE uses the same Intel 945GSE motherboard with the Intel GMA 950 graphics core as the NC10, dunno why they misrepresented that. The keyboard is slightly smaller on the 1000HE but it doesn't have the weird shift key placement asus's are known to have, very similiar to the NC10. Not sure if 0.4 pounds will make a huge difference to me as I'm currently carrying around 13.2 pounds. The 1000HE also has 802.11n although I run a G network at home not a big deal.

EDIT: Samsung N110!
http://tinyurl.com/cbc9ku ← I SHOULD HAVE USED TINYURL MYSELF, BUT I HURRDURR

Same weight/specs as the NC10 only with better battery life and a bigger touchpad. According to laptopmag.com it lasted just slightly longer than the 1000HE.

I think, among current netbooks, the winner for me is the Samsung N110 due to a better look and smaller size than the Asus Eee PC 1000HE. The only reason to choose the 1000HE would be for the slightly better processor and the island/chicklet style keyboard which certainly looks cool.

Now the final question: should I wait and see if the Asus Eee PC 1008/T101H blows my fucking mind? Wait for a N3xx Dual Core?

adventure_of_link · Post by **adventure_of_link** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:42 pm

What, no love for the Acer Aspire One?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6834115551

that said, if they're gonna come out with dual core netbooks, I'd wait for them, personally.

dfreer · Post by **dfreer** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:04 pm

Clements wrote:I have the Samsung NC10. Was definitely the best value for money at the time I got it. Wonderful little thing. The Asus Eee PC 1000HE is probably faster as it uses the N280 instead of the N270, but is slightly heavier and costs about £50 more. Otherwise, they are mostly the same spec-wise.

On newegg.com they have the 1000HE costing ~$40 less than the NC10, so at least here in America the Asus is cheaper than the Samsung.

adventure_of_link wrote:What, no love for the Acer Aspire One?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6834115551

that said, if they're gonna come out with dual core netbooks, I'd wait for them, personally.

Acer Aspire One although cheaper than the samsung NC10 and the asus eee pc 1000HE, doesn't seem to distinguish itself from the pack to me. No bluetooth, 0.3 megapixel camera, 6 hour battery life, and all other features on par with the samsung NC10 (weight/hard drive/processor/ram). Not crazy about it's appearance but it's better than some netbooks I've seen (most of the asus eee pc's come to mind). I think it would be a great choice for someone on a tighter budget than me but I think I'd like to pay extra for better battery life/extra features. Thanks for bringing it to my attention though!

casualsax3 · Post by **casualsax3** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:02 pm

The HP and the HP Mini 1000 have the best keyboards of the bunch. I bought my girlfriend the Mini 1000. The 1024x600 resolution is lame, but easily overcome with some theme and DPI tweaks:

The old Mini you're looking at has a better resolution, but slower VIA CPU, so take your pick. I found the 1.6GHz Atom to be decent.

dfreer · Post by **dfreer** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:23 pm

casualsax3 wrote:The HP and the HP Mini 1000 have the best keyboards of the bunch. I bought my girlfriend the Mini 1000. The 1024x600 resolution is lame, but easily overcome with some theme and DPI tweaks:

The old Mini you're looking at has a better resolution, but slower VIA CPU, so take your pick. I found the 1.6GHz Atom to be decent.

I was actually looking at the newer HP Mini 2140, which is equipped with the same Intel Atom N270 1.6 Ghz as most new netbooks and your Mini 1000, not the 2133 (in which case you are correct as it comes with the VIA). 1024 x 600 is quite standard on netbooks this size, although that is the selling point of the Mini 2140 is that they plan to offer a 1386 x 768 resolution screen in the near future for this 10.1 inch model.

In fact, there's pretty much no reason whatsoever to prefer the Mini 1000 unless you want smaller than 10.1 inch screens. The Mini 2140 has a 5400 RPM drive standard option whereas you can only get a 4200 RPM for the Mini 1000, 80 GB's at that. The mini 1000 changed the chassis to be plastic instead of aluminum, and there's no Expresscard port offered as well. The 3 cell battery in the HP Mini 2140 lasts almost 40 minutes longer than the Mini 1000 according to laptopmag.com

I really don't see why the 1000 would be preferred over the 2140, and in order to get the battery life I want on the 2140 I will need to get the 6 cell battery that makes typing on your lap uncomfortable, so I'm hesitant in picking it (other than that and it's cost it's a great netbook).

casualsax3 · Post by **casualsax3** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:36 pm

Yeah the 2140 wasn't an option when I got her this at Christmas. I also went with the 16GB SSD though, and it's quite snappy so far. They offer a 32GB version now, which seems like a good choice. The 3 cell battery gives it about 2-2.5 hours under normal use with WIFI on. Decent but nothing to write home about. My decision was based 100% on the keyboard, everything else was reasonable.

adventure_of_link · Post by **adventure_of_link** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:51 am

dfreer wrote:Thanks for bringing it to my attention though!

No problem. If you read the Newegg reviews for the Aspire One I linked, you can buy a 2GB stick for it for $12..

SquareHead · Post by **SquareHead** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:53 am

adventure_of_link wrote:
dfreer wrote:Thanks for bringing it to my attention though!
No problem. If you read the Newegg reviews for the Aspire One I linked, you can buy a 2GB stick for it for $12..

I own an aspire one here and use it religiously since thanksgiving. That being said as It suits me, I keep near an outlet. I have the three cell battery and its lasts around 2 hours.

dfreer · Post by **dfreer** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:01 pm

Is samsung just releasing a new model every week now?

The Samsung N120, now sporting a full-size 12" keyboard on the 10.1" netbook chassis (i'm just as confused as anyone else), also claims to get 10.5 Hours battery life. Still has the same Intel Atom N270 processor with the 945GSE chipset, all other specs similiar to the NC10 and the N110.

Sounds awesome but I still would like to see a real world testing of that battery compared to the NC10, N110, and the Asus Eee PC 1000HE.

EDIT: Evidently a dedicated subwoofer is also packed in there. Hmmm...

byuu · Post by **byuu** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:18 pm

I went with the MSI Wind myself, because it's very compatible with OS X. Only problem is I need third-party software for the wireless card, and a script to switch from speakers to the headphone jack.

For one, I've heard Intel is banning dual core Atoms from netbooks intentionally, to avoid under-cutting their Celeron business.

Two, Ion isn't going anywhere. Even the new Acer nettop is still using single-core Atoms. Frankly, I'd rather have the dual-core MSI nettop (at half the price) than a faster video card.

Atom's speed is fine (~25% as fast as an E8400 @ 3GHz), but it bogs down way too fast if you try and multi-task at all.

dfreer · Post by **dfreer** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:54 pm

byuu wrote:For one, I've heard Intel is banning dual core Atoms from netbooks intentionally, to avoid under-cutting their Celeron business.

Two, Ion isn't going anywhere. Even the new Acer nettop is still using single-core Atoms. Frankly, I'd rather have the dual-core MSI nettop (at half the price) than a faster video card.

Atom's speed is fine (~25% as fast as an E8400 @ 3GHz), but it bogs down way too fast if you try and multi-task at all.

Very interesting to hear, thanks for posting byuu! I hadn't heard about the Intel thing, last I heard was that the Dual Core Atoms like the N330 were expecting to ship in Q4 2009. I did come across an article that said something about Intel wanting to restrict Atom processors from being sold in >10" netbooks/laptops, for similar reasons.

I really do hope they allow <=10" netbooks to have the Dual Core Atom, but I'm not sure I'll wait till Q4 to get one. Really, I need to focus on battery life/comfort rather than getting the most badass processor

As for the Ion, I think I'd disagree with you there. One of my frustrations with building a HTPC was that I don't want to use a case as big as this, but I want a decent video card in order to playback 1080p video, bluray, and perhaps play some SNES

The Ion combined with a Atom processor on something like this, would be about perfect if the Ion can do what they say it can do. Ion + Dual Core Atom should be able to knockout 1080p playback.

Speaking of your MSI Wind, I am really impressed with some of the battery life reports I've been hearing of the U115 and the U123 models, I believe both are hybrids with a 160 GB SATA and a 8 GB SSD? Anywhere from 5.5 hours to 15 hours I believe. The right shift key is awkwardly placed, but it's a good looking laptop otherwise. Some models come with the N280 as well, what model did you buy byuu?

I'll do a full lookup on the MSI Wind here in a bit thanks for pointing me to it!

Post by **Nach** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:49 am

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a "netbook"?

adventure_of_link · Post by **adventure_of_link** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:09 pm

A netbook is a small and lightweight PC (generally something with a less than 12" screen, the minimum screen width being say, ~7.5".)

These kinds of notebooks are generally low powered to save on electricity and are mostly optimized for Internet applications.

Post by **grinvader** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:08 pm

You know, it's like a usb, but with a dvd and a bigger lcd

</runs the hell aw->

creaothceann · Post by **creaothceann** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:29 pm

grinvader wrote:You know, it's like a usb, but with a dvd and a bigger lcd

heh

Post by **odditude** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:45 pm

Nach wrote:Forgive my ignorance, but what is a "netbook"?

7"-to-11" ultraportable, usually sans optical drive, with a low-power cpu (originally via c7-m, now mainly intel atom), aimed at purely casual use.

standard price range is $200 to $450 (if you want more frills).

the model of atom most widely used in netbooks (atom N270) is essentially a 1.6Ghz, SMT-capable p55c (pentium mmx, baby!), built on a 45nm process with 512k l2 cache.

byuu · Post by **byuu** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:19 pm

Coolest part about the Atom is that it's an in-order processor.

Some models come with the N280 as well, what model did you buy byuu?

I got it a long time ago, it's the U100-432US. Practically archaic at the rate this stuff moves nowadays.

To me, the Fn key at the bottom left is the weirdest. You have to use that and the arrow keys to do pageup/pagedown/home/end. It's difficult to type on, and impossible to see the topic review box at the same time. But it's great for gaming on the road. Has a 6-cell battery life of 6-8 hours.

What I really like is that my line-UPS will run it for an additional 20 or so hours. With DSL not requiring power, it's a nice "no-power" system, without the need for a gas-powered generator.

As for Intel, maybe they'll allow dual-core Atoms eventually. But they don't yet. Intel should be shot for forcing that 945 chipset on us. The Atom itself doesn't even need a fan.

My secondary will be replaced with a dual-core Atom + Ion if and when it ever comes out. I'll even pay $300 for it.

Post by **Nach** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:56 pm

creaothceann wrote:
grinvader wrote:You know, it's like a usb, but with a dvd and a bigger lcd
heh

Ugh.

I went to visit my parents yesterday, and had yet another annoying conversation with my sister.

Code: Select all

<Sister> Nach, I went to the electronic store last week, and saw they had a new Mario Party game which you didn't give me yet.
<Nach> Yeah I know, there's a few Mario Party games I didn't give you.
<Sister> Can you get it for me?
<Nach> A friend of mine has it, he could probably make a copy for me if I asked him nicely.
<Sister> Would it work on my computer?
<Nach> I'm not sure, I'd have to look into it. Even if it does work though, there's a good chance your computer will play it slowly.
<Sister> That's okay, remember the other Mario Parties were slow on my old computer and I still played them? I also saw in the store that the game is played with a special remote control which is lots of fun, can I get something like that for my computer?
<Nach> We can buy that actual remote control, and a bluetooth adaptor for it, and you should be all set.
<Sister> What? I'm not talking about a microphone.
<Nach> Who said anything about a microphone?
<Sister> You just did.
<Nach> I'm pretty certain I didn't.
<Sister> You just said I'd have to talk into it.
<Nach> What?!?
<Sister> You said you'd buy me a bluetooth for remote control, I don't want to talk into the game.
<Nach> Do you know what bluetooth is?
<Sister> Yes it's a microphone.
<Nach> Uh no, it's a wireless technology that is used by the remote control you saw for communication.
<Sister> What are you stupid? Everyone knows bluetooth is a microphone.

This is what I have to put up with when it comes to any kind of technology.

You know all those old computer jokes about people who tried faxing floppy disks? I thought those will a bit over the top, and how could people be so stupid till about two weeks ago.

My sister called me up that her computer was going nuts, and she couldn't click on anything. I couldn't really diagnose it over the phone since nothing she said made much sense.
I got there in person, and noticed it looked like a whole bunch of keys were being pressed at once, what with menus popping up and immediately closing, and desktop items being traversed one after the other all by itself.
So I unplug the keyboard, and sure enough, all the craziness stopped. So I tell her she needs a new keyboard, this one seems to be acting up, or possibly the jack for it on her motherboard broke, we can test it by plugging her keyboard into a different computer.
She then asks me if this has anything to do with her washing her keyboard the day before.
"What exactly did you do?"
"Well, it had some dirt in it, so I took it to the sink, ran it under for a few minutes and wiped it off"
I felt ready to bang my head into the wall, such stupidity, and in my own family!
"Didn't you think that maybe it would break it, or that immediately after your computer was acting all weird, perhaps the keyboard is broken?"
"No, you never told me I can't wash my keyboard under the water before, why should that break anything?"

Seriously, some people shouldn't own a computer, or be allowed to touch technology. It's a wonder she hasn't yet tried plugging her toaster oven into her hair dryer.

sweener2001 · Post by **sweener2001** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:00 pm