I hate Linux

jdratlif · Post by **jdratlif** » Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:11 pm

It's stupid and ugly and I have the weird (but seemingly prevalent) cpu usage goes through the room when using the hard drive problem.

So it's time to look around. I was keeping Linux for my old TiVo to connect it to the internet, but I got a new TiVo and it has built-in networking, so I could switch to something else now.

So, what should I try. Here are my requirements.
1) Pretty
2) Not Stupid (no I can't be more specific)
3) Doesn't kill the machine when I use the hard drive for anything non-trivial.
4) Supports some kind of virtualization software (vmware player, VirtualBox, or something similar)
5) Can take advantage of all 4 GB of my RAM (probably nothing that doesn't these days, but just in case).
6) Can run sshd and vncserver (preferably tightvnc) so I can access it remotely.
7) Runs wine.
8) Has a decent media player supporting mp3 and aac audio.

I'm using KDE4. I like it, but it's not as nice as Win7 or Mac imo.

I was thinking Snow Leopard (not sure if it will work, but I've got Leopard working, so I might try it). FreeBSD or OpenSolaris might be an option.

No Windows, no new linux distro, no XenExpress. Already have Win7 on my laptop. All linux distros suck equally. XenExpress requires vnc/rfb which is not geared towards my needs.

If it supported the JFS filesystem so I didn't need to backup that would be great, too, but not a requirement. Is there a free version of Aix? :)

Post by **grinvader** » Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:24 pm

Don't worry, it hates you too.

jdratlif · Post by **jdratlif** » Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:34 pm

I don't know what I would do without you grin.

Forgot to mention, it also must have read/write ntfs support for my external hard drive that I share with windows.

And have python support. And come with a free puppy. And pay my taxes.

Post by **odditude** » Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:42 pm

jdratlif wrote:puppy

but i thought you didn't want linux?

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:52 pm

One would argue too many linux options...

funkyass · Post by **funkyass** » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:30 pm

MS DOS.

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:02 am

funkyass wrote:MS DOS.

Hell yeah.

8. http://mpxplay.sourceforge.net/

"Mpxplay is an audio player for DOS and Win32 (Win98,2K,XP) operating systems, developed in OpenWatcom C v1.3
Supported files:
- audio: AAC, AC3, APE, FLAC, MP2/MP3, MPC, VORBIS, WMA, WV and CDW (Audio CD ripp'n'play); with plugins: DTS, MOD, SPEEX
- containers: ASF (WMA/WMV), AVI, MP4 (M4A), OGG, WAV
- playlists: M3U, M3U8, PLS, FPL, CUE, MXU "

Post by **grinvader** » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:25 am

jdratlif wrote:I don't know what I would do without you grin.

my work here is done

jdratlif · Post by **jdratlif** » Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:46 pm

I've been messing around with Snow Leopard. All my hardware seems to work, so I'm going to start backing things up and trying it out.

If it doesn't work out, I guess I'll give MS-DOS a go.

funkyass · Post by **funkyass** » Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:42 pm

get DOS 4.0 if you can. it rox the best.

jdratlif · Post by **jdratlif** » Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:54 pm

funkyass wrote:get DOS 4.0 if you can. it rox the best.

I'm gonna see how Snow Leopard works out for awhile, but DOS 4.0 is definitely next on my list.

Linux is gone now. Everything seems to work great except there's no smplayer in OS X.

Post by **lordmissus** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:35 am

You should totally try OpenBSD. I've used it in the past, and it's simply the best OS on this planet, period.

1) Pretty
2) Not Stupid (no I can't be more specific)
3) Doesn't kill the machine when I use the hard drive for anything non-trivial.
4) Supports some kind of virtualization software (vmware player, VirtualBox, or something similar)
5) Can take advantage of all 4 GB of my RAM (probably nothing that doesn't these days, but just in case).
6) Can run sshd and vncserver (preferably tightvnc) so I can access it remotely.
7) Runs wine.
Has a decent media player supporting mp3 and aac audio.

Xubuntu
#1 Gnome, Xfce
#2 Linux isn't stupid, you are
#3 Ext4/ReiserFS(if possible these days...)
#4 Yes, VirtualBox. Use the proprietary version, the OSE is shit.
#5 Yes, most AMD64-based distros. Xubuntu 9.10 AMD64 works just fine.
#6 Yes
#7 Yes
#8 VLC/mplayer

Also, Linux doesn't suck. It just doesn't rock, either.

jdratlif · Post by **jdratlif** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:40 am

lordmister wrote:You should totally try OpenBSD. I've used it in the past, and it's simply the best OS on this planet, period.

Xubuntu
#1 Gnome, Xfce
#2 Linux isn't stupid, you are
#3 Ext4/ReiserFS(if possible these days...)
#4 Yes, VirtualBox. Use the proprietary version, the OSE is shit.
#5 Yes, most AMD64-based distros. Xubuntu 9.10 AMD64 works just fine.
#6 Yes
#7 Yes
#8 VLC/mplayer

Also, Linux doesn't suck. It just doesn't rock, either.

I have never liked the *buntu family. Everyone raves about them, but they always seem to have some issue that sends me running. Every new release fixes an old bug and adds two new ones. Maybe the trick is to wait for the new one, then use the old one. Whatever.

Gnome, Xfce, KDE4. They're all about the same. Meh.

Two examples of Linux stupidity.

1) Terrible sound support, and too many sound systems.

2) Try to use the hard drive and the system crawls to a halt. Is it unreasonable to expect to use the machine while transferring a 1 GB file over the network? I've read dozens of threads describing similar problems. Some people think it's an amd64 issue. Some think it's an SATA issue. Some people think it's a scheduler issue. Whatever the issue, it's prevalent, and I couldn't find any solution. Do you have one?

ext4 looked nice. I was thinking about that. But I don't really think JFS was my problem. IBM production unix servers have been using it for more than a decade.

VirtualBox is nice, and yes I use the non-OSE edition.

VLC is okay. I like smplayer better, but I use it occasionally.

Don't know much about OpenBSD. Is it the one that's security focused? No VirtualBox for it.

Snow Leopard is great so far. Mostly minor issues. No smplayer or native cd access under Wine (i.e. no more ImgBurn). I want to look at Apple's Remote Login before I try vnc. The interface is a little different, but I got a book from the library and I've learned a lot. The Home/End keys are driving me nuts. They go to the top and bottom of a page, not the beginning/end of a line. Apple+Left/Right is the Mac way.

Rashidi · Post by **Rashidi** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:18 am

jdratlif wrote:examples of Linux stupidity:

1) Terrible sound support, and too many sound systems.

i just looove to mention it, whenever i talk to redneck linux users

some of 'em even said that i'm a directsound bigot.

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:26 am

Rashidi wrote:
jdratlif wrote:examples of Linux stupidity:

1) Terrible sound support, and too many sound systems.
i just looove to mention it, whenever i talk to redneck linux users
some of 'em even said that i'm a directsound bigot.

Screw direct sound. Direct sound(card control) is where it's at.

DOS 4.0.

Post by **grinvader** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:40 am

DOS 6.22!

Post by **lordmissus** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:32 am

jdratlif wrote:
lordmister wrote:You should totally try OpenBSD. I've used it in the past, and it's simply the best OS on this planet, period.

Xubuntu
#1 Gnome, Xfce
#2 Linux isn't stupid, you are
#3 Ext4/ReiserFS(if possible these days...)
#4 Yes, VirtualBox. Use the proprietary version, the OSE is shit.
#5 Yes, most AMD64-based distros. Xubuntu 9.10 AMD64 works just fine.
#6 Yes
#7 Yes
#8 VLC/mplayer

Also, Linux doesn't suck. It just doesn't rock, either.
I have never liked the *buntu family. Everyone raves about them, but they always seem to have some issue that sends me running. Every new release fixes an old bug and adds two new ones. Maybe the trick is to wait for the new one, then use the old one. Whatever.

Gnome, Xfce, KDE4. They're all about the same. Meh.

Two examples of Linux stupidity.

1) Terrible sound support, and too many sound systems.

2) Try to use the hard drive and the system crawls to a halt. Is it unreasonable to expect to use the machine while transferring a 1 GB file over the network? I've read dozens of threads describing similar problems. Some people think it's an amd64 issue. Some think it's an SATA issue. Some people think it's a scheduler issue. Whatever the issue, it's prevalent, and I couldn't find any solution. Do you have one?

ext4 looked nice. I was thinking about that. But I don't really think JFS was my problem. IBM production unix servers have been using it for more than a decade.

VirtualBox is nice, and yes I use the non-OSE edition.

VLC is okay. I like smplayer better, but I use it occasionally.

Don't know much about OpenBSD. Is it the one that's security focused? No VirtualBox for it.

Snow Leopard is great so far. Mostly minor issues. No smplayer or native cd access under Wine (i.e. no more ImgBurn). I want to look at Apple's Remote Login before I try vnc. The interface is a little different, but I got a book from the library and I've learned a lot. The Home/End keys are driving me nuts. They go to the top and bottom of a page, not the beginning/end of a line. Apple+Left/Right is the Mac way.

1) Ubuntu comes with ALSA and PulseAudio, which are shit. Remove them and replace with OSSv4 and you're golden. You can even get ALSA apps working on OSS with the following workaround:
http://insanecoding.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... ion-4.html
If interested in OSSv4, see the following: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OpenSound

2) I've never had any problems with disc performance on Linux. It depends on the FS; ext4 is good. ReiserFS is also good, though I haven't read about that much lately, what with that murder investigation... of course, it also depends on what you do, and how fast your disc is.

Yes, OpenBSD si focused on security. See,
http://openbsd.org/
Specifically,
http://openbsd.org/security.html
http://openbsd.org/crypto.html

You can't go wrong with OpenBSD. It's literally the most secure operating system on planet Earth, by default. They have a track record now of only having 2 security holes in the default install in the past 10 years.

Judging from what you've written so far, I'd say MacOS is for you. I've never used the OS personally, don't really see any reason to, aside from curiosity.

paulguy · Post by **paulguy** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:22 am

The slowness sounds like a driver problem more than anything. Could be using PIO mode or something.

And yeah, sounds sucks. With my old onboard sound, ALSA had all kinds of problems, and OSS caused a kernel panic... I suppose I could try OSS4 again. I really liked it when I had it on an old machine.

As far as things being ugly, well, yeah. I have no explanation for that. :p Xfce does well enough for me. Nice and not distracting, and all the fancies in gnome and kde just don't do it for me and take too much resources. Everything out is considerably more plain than xfce, and tends to feel like playing mortal kombat or something with all the key combos.

Post by **lordmissus** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:53 pm

Here are some screen shots of my desktop:
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/9985/sc1wl.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/7640/sc3k.jpg

Are those what you define as "ugly"? I like a minimalist desktop, without the bloat that is KDE or Gnome and their fancy Beryl/Compiz program or whatever it is now. I just want something that works, and doesn't get in my way, though I wouldn't say my desktop is "ugly" in any way...

Hence, I use Xfce. I would use just a window manager like Fluxbox, but Xfce provides a full desktop while still being relatively lightweight.

Post by **grinvader** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:19 pm

lordmister wrote:I haven't read about that much lately, what with that murder investigation...

probably because said investigation ended about two years ago and led to incarceration instead

complete with buttrape, at that

read up on it if you don't believe me

"hiatus until 2023; afk jailtime lawl"

sweener2001 · Post by **sweener2001** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:25 pm

i think i'm going to look into this oss4 thing. i've put a wubi install on again for tinkering.

my linux question is: is there a package that can create click zones? when i tap in the lower left corner of my trackpad in windows, that's a middle click. i would like that same functionality in ubuntu.

i also want to only have to click once in the address bar of my browser and be able to highlight the entire address. right now, i have to triple-click on the address itself (clicking in the bar, not on the address does nothing).

jdratlif · Post by **jdratlif** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:19 pm

lordmister wrote:1) Ubuntu comes with ALSA and PulseAudio, which are shit. Remove them and replace with OSSv4 and you're golden. You can even get ALSA apps working on OSS with the following workaround: http://insanecoding.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... ion-4.html
If interested in OSSv4, see the following: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OpenSound

OSS4 is the best sound driver for Linux, I agree. I wouldn't call it golden.

I've had a hard time getting some ALSA apps to accept OSS.

Audacious required special OSS4 configuration to get volume controls working, and the sound level changes each time you change songs. Yes, this is an Audacious problem, not an OSS4 problem. I'm just telling you about my issues with Linux sound.

Sound quality in vmware-player under OSS4 was terrible. Pops and cracks all over the place. VirtualBox does sound just fine. Again, this is a vmware-player problem, not an OSS4 problem. Also it thought I had no sound card. I had to manually tell it to use /dev/dsp.

No volume mixers seem to work with OSS4 other than OSSmix, which is horrible. I like kmix, and even though they claim to support OSS, it didn't work for me.

lordmister wrote:2) I've never had any problems with disc performance on Linux. It depends on the FS; ext4 is good. ReiserFS is also good, though I haven't read about that much lately, what with that murder investigation... of course, it also depends on what you do, and how fast your disc is.

Maybe you're right and I am stupid. I was looking at the backup of my kernel config yesterday, and AHCI support is not enabled. I don't know if this is the cause of my suffering or not, but it's something I need to look into.

I don't know what filesystem could bring the machine to its knees. As for my particulars, I was using ext3 for / and JFS for /home. I haven't touched /home in years, ever since I migrated from ext3. I was thinking about switching to ext4 for both, but since it required a backup anyway, I decided to give OS X a try first.

Disk speed shouldn't be an issue. I have a Western Digital 7200 RPM SATA II 3.0 Mbps drive on an Intel ICH7 AHCI SATA controller. The only thing sharing the controller is my DVD burner.

lordmister wrote:Judging from what you've written so far, I'd say MacOS is for you. I've never used the OS personally, don't really see any reason to, aside from curiosity.

Imagine a great GUI on a FreeBSD install. That's Mac OS X.

paulguy wrote:The slowness sounds like a driver problem more than anything. Could be using PIO mode or something.

Looks like I may have it incorrectly configured. I've been through a dozen kernel configurations. It's hard to imagine that I never switched AHCI support, but I can't be sure.

PIO mode is the first thing I checked. That was my first assumption as well.

lordmister wrote:Here are some screen shots of my desktop:
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/9985/sc1wl.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/7640/sc3k.jpg

Are those what you define as "ugly"? I like a minimalist desktop, without the bloat that is KDE or Gnome and their fancy Beryl/Compiz program or whatever it is now. I just want something that works, and doesn't get in my way, though I wouldn't say my desktop is "ugly" in any way...

Hence, I use Xfce. I would use just a window manager like Fluxbox, but Xfce provides a full desktop while still being relatively lightweight.

Ugly can only be defined in your own terms. I'm not saying Linux desktops induce vomiting, but personally I think Windows and OS X look better than KDE/Gnome/Xfce/etc. Compiz/Beryl-type effects are part of that. It's a lot of little things which are hard to describe. Here is a screenshot of my Snow Leopard desktop. It cycles the image every 30 minutes, but I think that might be the default.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/j ... wLeoSS.jpg

Have you looked at lxde. A lot of people think Xfce is becoming too bloated. I use it for vnc in gentoo.

Post by **lordmissus** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:19 pm

You should use ossxmix, not ossmix, for a decent mixer under OSS4.

Imagine a great GUI on a FreeBSD install. That's Mac OS X.

Ok, except MacOS is based on Darwin, not FreeBSD

Xfce is not bloated, also. It depends on your configuration. My Xfce is the latest version, and it's as fast as a hyena on steroids. LXDE is fast(er), but it's as buggy as hell.

Also grin, I know what happened to him, and to ReiserFS. That's not to say it still can't be used even if it is basically defunct now. It is still a generally very fast FS, afterall.

Post by **grinvader** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:55 pm

sweener2001 wrote:i also want to only have to click once in the address bar of my browser and be able to highlight the entire address. right now, i have to triple-click on the address itself (clicking in the bar, not on the address does nothing).

'f6'

Hurrr

(Alternatively, for browsers that suck ass, ctrl+L.)

jdratlif · Post by **jdratlif** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:06 pm

lordmister wrote:
Imagine a great GUI on a FreeBSD install. That's Mac OS X.
Ok, except MacOS is based on Darwin, not FreeBSD

Darwin borrows heavily from FreeBSD.

lordmister wrote:Xfce is not bloated, also. It depends on your configuration. My Xfce is the latest version, and it's as fast as a hyena on steroids. LXDE is fast(er), but it's as buggy as hell.

I said some people think it is becoming that way. I don't necessarily share that opinion. Xfce is very nice, and I don't think we'll be seeing "lubuntu" anytime soon.

lordmister wrote:You should use ossxmix, not ossmix, for a decent mixer under OSS4.

Typo. ossxmix is what I meant, and it totally sucks. Messy and cluttered and confusing.