State of SNES Emulation - 2010

[badinsults]

I decided a few days ago to write an article about the state of SNES emulation. I put the various SNES emulators through some tests and commented about what I thought about them.


Click here for article


I should note that I know that ZSNES is in development still, and I hope that next year I can update this!

[grinvader]

next year, huh ?



...
who knows


maybe something interesting will happen.




It's a good article for someone new to this whole mess.
Although you sorta forgot about poor TRAC's SNEeSe... but it's been on hold for even longer than zsnes (and TRAC doesn't talk much).

[paulguy]

"For example, the MSU-1 feature is a that allows you to make a SNES game that is up to 4 GB in size."

Otherwise, good, entertaining, informative article, as far as I know about SNES and emulation.

[badinsults]

"For example, the MSU-1 feature is a that allows you to make a SNES game that is up to 4 GB in size."

Otherwise, good, entertaining, informative article, as far as I know about SNES and emulation.

The hardest thing to do is proofread your own work. Though I did, I obviously missed that.



Also, I didn't forget about SNEeSe, though it hasn't been updated in over five years, so I didn't consider it because it is clearly abandoned. Plus I couldn't get it to compile.

[AamirM]

Now these are the sort of articles so called "Emulation (News) Sites" should have written after researching and giving all emulators a try for each system. Very good and informative read. I like SNESGT. :D

[paulguy]

Yeah, I wasn't exactly picking it apart, just letting you know so someone else doesn't pick it apart in a rude way, though sorry if I seemed rude, I didn't intend it.

[sweener2001]

great article.

[snkcube]

Most excellent article.

[ShadowFX]

Great read. This I would like to read for something like the N64 emulation scene as well.

The following emulators were used in the main tests: BSNES 0.68, SNES9x 1.52, ZSNES 1.51 and MESS 0.169.

I assume you meant MESS 0.139

[PHoNyMiKe]

this article seems limited to x86 pcs. the true state of snes emulation in 2010 is you can play snes games on a hacked xbox 360, ipod touch, even old cell phones like the palm treo. I was hoping to see things like that when I first read the article.

[badinsults]

The majority of those systems just have ports of SNES9x.

Also, if you would like to purchase a modded Xbox 360 (I'm not modding mine) and the various phones to test the emulators, I will update the article.

[paulguy]

Basically, the iphone one sucks, because it costs money and the android one sucks, because it costs money. I know I have the means to pay for it, but I remember for a while that, even if I had the money available, I'd have no way of ordering it, and that would be quite annoying.

SNES emulation on the Wii seems to work pretty well, as well as more modern gamepark handhelds ad pandora. All those platforms likely encounter some slowdown in certain games, though, I know the pandora one does, but I haven't tried the rest. Otherwise the emulators are basically, as badinsults said, just (sometimes older) versions of snes9x.

[adventure_of_link]

Basically, the iphone one sucks, because it costs money and the android one sucks, because it costs money. I know I have the means to pay for it, but I remember for a while that, even if I had the money available, I'd have no way of ordering it, and that would be quite annoying.

If those are ports of Snes9X, let alone have some parts of Snes9X in it (IIRC one (or both) of them had some library from Snes9X), don't bother. Basically they're committing a crime by selling Snes9X, when it should be freeware in the first place (and the fact that they didn't contact the developers doesn't help).

Having said that, I know someone was working on a free port of Snes9X to the Droid. I don't know how the progress is, though.

To badinsults: another good and informative article, like always.

[AamirM]

Apparently, there one more actively developed SNES emulator. Pasofami. Its quite possibly the oldest emulator that's still being developed. Though, it only emulated NES initially.

EDIT:
Yeah. Its probably a hassle to try this. Don't bother.

[grinvader]

Apparently, there one more actively developed SNES emulator. Pasofami. Its quite possibly the oldest emulator that's still being developed. Though, it only emulated NES initially.

...and super pasofami was the snes one. Guess they just merged both ?


... although, after having a look there, where does it say it supports snes at all ? looks like it's only nes, as usual.
and that weird registration thingie, as usual too.

[blackmyst]

Ahh, reading that got me all nostalgic. And it's great to see how far SNES emulation has come, as well as the fact that there's still life left in this scene yet.

Nice work as always.

[Sessh]

Good article there, badinsults. I think I actually found the forum thread where Matthew K(something) was ranting about the state of SNES emulation more interesting. I agree with a lot of what he says there as well. I really wish I could code and program things like this because I would be more than eager to help out and do things right. I would rather have an emulator that did things right instead of half right or "good enough." I've used several NES emulators and split time between Nestopia and VirtuaNES since if one can't do something, the other one can and they can both record in real time. ZSNES is pretty much the only SNES emulator I've used though I did try SNES9x because I wanted to record and found it to be quite buggy. Still, I prefer ZSNES to other emulators and it has never given me a single crash or major problem aside from in-game saving issues with the newest version, but I suppose that's more minor.

I do think MAME is an outstanding emulator, but the thing I don't like is that your existing ROMs may not work when a new version comes out. Personally, I think the best console emulator out there today is Kega Fusion 3.6. SMS, Game Gear, Genesis, Sega CD and 32x games all with one emulator plus it records AVI's and I can say I've never had an issue with anything while using Kega. Save states and in-game saves work great and it's very easy to set paths for those things. Who knows, one day it may also be able to emulate Sega Saturn games as well. It seems there is only one person working on Kega, but I could be wrong about that. Either way, the guy seems to have his priorities in the right place because Kega is wonderful and still getting better with no signs of it being abandoned anytime soon.

I do find it a little discouraging that many of the emulators I've used or are using, be it NES or SNES, are not further along at this stage of the game. I do share Mr. MK's sentiments and I hope things do change and these emulators continue to get better before there's no one left who remembers these consoles with the know-how and desire to put them together and the great games that accompany them. Emulation has come a long way, but it seems there's still a lot left to do.

Just an opinion from the outside.

[Gil_Hamilton]

Good article there, badinsults. I think I actually found the forum thread where Matthew K(something) was ranting about the state of SNES emulation more interesting. I agree with a lot of what he says there as well. I really wish I could code and program things like this because I would be more than eager to help out and do things right. I would rather have an emulator that did things right instead of half right or "good enough."

You're too late. Byuu's done just about everything mkendora wanted done in bsnes.

Personally, I think the best console emulator out there today is Kega Fusion 3.6. SMS, Game Gear, Genesis, Sega CD and 32x games all with one emulator plus it records AVI's and I can say I've never had an issue with anything while using Kega. Save states and in-game saves work great and it's very easy to set paths for those things. Who knows, one day it may also be able to emulate Sega Saturn games as well. It seems there is only one person working on Kega, but I could be wrong about that. Either way, the guy seems to have his priorities in the right place because Kega is wonderful and still getting better with no signs of it being abandoned anytime soon.

From what I understand, Steve Snake actually used to develop Genesis games for a living, so...
I wouldn't expect Saturn emulation, though. There's reasons for the other platforms.


SegaCD and 32x are going to require a Genesis emulator, since they're expansions.

Full Genesis emulation gets you SMS and Game Gear emulation almost as a freebie.
Half of the Genesis sound system is the Game Gear sound system, which is the SMS sound system with a stereo hack. The graphics chip is back-compatible with the SMS, and the Game Gear graphics chip is a mild hack of the SMS graphics chip.
And the Z80 used for the SMS and Game Gear processor is a coprocessor on the Genesis' motherboard.
So by emulating the Genesis, you already have all of the parts for a SMS, and the Game Gear is a relatively small step from that.

It's that close on purpose. A real Genesis is back-compatible with the Master System.
And the Game Gear is so closely related to the SMS that you're almost there once you have SMS emulation(hence why nearly every SMS emu on Earth also does Game Gear).
Though if I recall, SMS was originally implemented in Kega as a way to test the Z80 emulation.


End tangental background.

[odditude]

From what I understand, Steve Snake actually used to develop Genesis games for a living, so...

indeed - he's in the credits of several games, and is one of the hidden characters in the SNES/Genesis port of NBA Jam TE.

[Sessh]

From what I understand, Steve Snake actually used to develop Genesis games for a living, so...

Well that explains a lot, but not surprising at all. He's certainly the guy for the job and I guess that means Kega won't be abandoned since he's probably really into doing it and knows exactly what he has to do to make a flawless emulator.

You're too late. Byuu's done just about everything mkendora wanted done in bsnes.

So, I take it that BSNES is considered the most accurate SNES emulator at this point? I've never tried it, so maybe I'll give it a look sometime. Does it record?

I wouldn't expect Saturn emulation, though. There's reasons for the other platforms.

Gotcha, but it would be nice if he did. I've tried a couple Saturn emulators and none are very easy to use. I've never gotten one to work before and using ISO's is my only option. I never had a Saturn or played any games for it, so I guess I'll have to hope Saturn emulation gets better in the future. The Saturn wasn't too popular I don't think, so that may not happen. Did Steve Snake have a hand in Saturn games or only Genesis?

[Gil_Hamilton]

You're too late. Byuu's done just about everything mkendora wanted done in bsnes.

So, I take it that BSNES is considered the most accurate SNES emulator at this point? I've never tried it, so maybe I'll give it a look sometime.

Bingo.
In fact, BSNES is the ONLY SNES emulator that can correctly play Air Strike Patrol(in a subversion, since the pixel-based renderer slows it down so much)

Does it record?

I ... have no idea. I wouldn't bet on it.

I wouldn't expect Saturn emulation, though. There's reasons for the other platforms.

Gotcha, but it would be nice if he did. I've tried a couple Saturn emulators and none are very easy to use. I've never gotten one to work before and using ISO's is my only option. I never had a Saturn or played any games for it, so I guess I'll have to hope Saturn emulation gets better in the future. The Saturn wasn't too popular I don't think, so that may not happen. Did Steve Snake have a hand in Saturn games or only Genesis?

A couple? There's options besides SSF?
Though I've not had trouble with SSF in my (admittedly limited) usage.

And the Saturn was AT LEAST as popular as the Jaguar.

[kode54]

bsnes records its own internal movie format, but it lacks the capability to produce AVI/MKV/whatever video files from these movies on its own.

[franpa]

So, I take it that BSNES is considered the most accurate SNES emulator at this point? I've never tried it, so maybe I'll give it a look sometime.

Bingo.
In fact, BSNES is the ONLY SNES emulator that can correctly play Air Strike Patrol(in a subversion, since the pixel-based renderer slows it down so much)

I believe the current version includes access to the cycle/pixel accurate rendering engine that the game needs to appear correctly, that mode is slow as molasses though

[Gil_Hamilton]

My mistake. I'm a decision behind.

Still gotta use the dot-based renderer with ASP, though, and it DOES slow it down horribly(byuu lists the system requirements for it as a liquid-nitrogen-cooled super computer).
Two outta three ain't bad.

[badinsults]

I still don't see the point of dot based rendering.

It isn't like the SNES hardware is all of the sudden going to stop working. I imagine in 100 years you will still be able to play the SNES system without issues. The SNES only draws 17 Watts, far less than any computer.


How about that DSP-3 support?