Unoffical Release of Zsnes that has Kaillera

[ZnKaiRel]

http://board.zsnes.com/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 59&start=0

I am trying to get this noticed, but no one seems interested, 5 player zsnes?

[Agozer]

We don't provide support to people using unofficial builds of ZSNES. ZSNES wasn't designed to "just" work with add-on programs such as Kaillera to begin with.

PROTIP: You lost the game when you put Kaillera in it. I mean, seriously. Kaillera. WTF?

[ZnKaiRel]

Kaillera is a bad SDK you say? well what SDK could I replace the kaillera with?

[paulguy]

Certainly something that's not tied to Windows, considering the rather large linux and mac userbase of zsnes.

EDIT: Heh, I looked at the source code for the kaillera stuff that was added. There's no way this will work well with zsnes. It will be horribly prone to desync.

[ZnKaiRel]

I am sure I can make it sync with all clients. I have an idea, maybe I should make an edit and upload again?

[ZnKaiRel]

Here is my idea for getting kaillera to sync all clients.

Code: Select all

    loopstop=1;
    returnsize=0;

    while(returnsize >= 0 && loopstop==1)
    {

        returnsize=kailleraModifyPlayValues((void*)joykaicopy,5);  //it's possible I am polling to soon.
        if(joykaicopy[0]!=0)    //check if sync.
        if(joykaicopy[5]!=0 || numberPlayersInGame<2)//check player 1 in
        if(joykaicopy[10]!=0 || numberPlayersInGame<3)//check player 2 in
        if(joykaicopy[15]!=0 || numberPlayersInGame<4)//check player 3 in
        if(joykaicopy[20]!=0 || numberPlayersInGame<5)//check player 4 in
            loopstop=0;
            //if for somereason kailera doesn't clean their buffer, or if they repeat old 
            //messages, it could be possible to send them another Modify play value, and send a zero string.
            //continue after last mod sent.
            //Another idea to make this sync would be to, use the chat string send and recieve function.
            //haven't use that function yet, not sure if it's possible.
            //Basically tryiing to use a message sent by kailleraModifyPlayValues() to sync all players.
            //all players stop at this section until all states are in.
        
    }

what do you think? don't forget that joykaicopy get's cleared.

[adventure_of_link]

You also have to consider that Kaillera and ZSNES have/had two different licenses...

[ZnKaiRel]

The last code snippet had a major flaw in it!

but back on topic, what do you mean licenses?
you don't mean a conflic with the GPL? :[

oh, i did get zsnes to sync, yes that's correct, i managed to make them sync.
But if there is a conflict with the GPL, what do i do?

[franpa]

Don't release the software.

[adventure_of_link]

Don't release the software.

Hate to say this, but I do have to agree with Franpa here.

Basically, Kailerra is closed source, whereas GPL is open source, AND the source has to be released with every release, or somehow made readily available. this is the only conflict I can think of right now; others can chime in.

[kode54]

Using a closed source library doesn't differ much in practice than linking to closed source operating system modules, but the latter is probably the only one allowed by the GPL, otherwise it would be impossible to release GPL binaries for any proprietary operating system. (Which would probably make RMS happy.)

[ZnKaiRel]

who is RMS?

Well just as long as it's legal to release this source code, otherwise i'll have to press... clear.

[funkyass]

You can't use closed source with GPL sources - you need to be able to provide the source for Kaillera on demand. Which you can't. So there.


That aside, what exactly do you think needs syncing?

[kode54]

Although the GPL does make exceptions for any closed source modules included with the operating system or other software distribution that executes the software. The exception excludes any binary modules that must be included with the software, such as this Kaillera module.

Would it be an exception if the Kaillera software were not included with ZSNES itself?

[funkyass]

tl;dr - if it don't come with an OS, you need to provide the source.


Lets work the reasoning backwards. The exceptions in the GPL exist so one can release source under the GPL, but not be penalized on platform choice.

You are supposed to make available the sources for everything needed to compile and run your source, regardless of how its distributed. If you are using windows and microsoft tools that's impossible, so thus the exception for using MS's libraries.

GPLv2 says this:

However, as a special exception, the source code distributed need not include anything that is normally distributed (in either source or binary form) with the major components (compiler, kernel, and so on) of the operating system on which the executable runs, unless that component itself accompanies the executable.

GPL v3 basically says the same, but as a part of the definition of "System Libraries", not as an exception.

[grinvader]

as a reminder, ZSNES is GPLv2, not v3

[isamu]

ZnKaiRel....since this appears to be an issue, have you considered doing what Digital Ghost is doing, and using your own netcode design?

http://10ghost.blogspot.com/2010_08_01_archive.html

[ZnKaiRel]

Zsnes stays in sync with other clients, and chat works.

But now this problem with the closed source software which is kaillera.

If there are no function calls inside the zsnes source code that call kaillera, but if I include function calls to source code outside zsnes which would be my source other than the kaillera function calls, could I exclude my source code, but yet make it available and legally release Zsnes?

So I would make function calls to my source code from zsnes. My source code would call kaillera functions. I would release zsnes source code, and then my source seperate.

The binary would not include kaillera, except for the fact that I have links to function calls. What that make this legal?

[ZnKaiRel]

After looking at the GPLv2 it looks like I can share this version of zsnes, as long as I don't share "Kaillera's" source code.

Which I don't have anyways, nor do I want it.

... so back in the development section of zsnes forums i'll post two links, one of the source code, the other for the binary (sorry for it's uncompressed size).

[funkyass]

No, you are still violating the GPL.

[Gil_Hamilton]

If in doubt, just remember: GPL hates you. It hates your friends. It hates other developers. It hates external libraries. It hates your compiler. It hates everyone. Except maybe Stahlman, but I'm pretty sure it hates him too.

[CCd]

I suggest you to create your own page, maybe on sourceforge, and post it there with your owon forum, because I think you won't find much help. I know people here will dislike what I will say, but that's the best information in at least three years, for a lot of people including me. So please consider it, and thank you for your effort znKaiRel.

on a side note, it istantly crashes when you load a rom. Wanted to inform you about that.

[Deathlike2]

I doubt SF would allow a project that has license issues.

[CCd]

I doubt SF would allow a project that has license issues.

Didn't know that. Oh well, making a webpage shouldn't be a trouble anyway. C'mon, it would be very neat to have kaillera on Zsnes. damn licenses.

[mudlord88]

I generally don't give two shits about legal issues, so I might be able to host a homepage for you people.