Implementation of Even More Render Methods (I Mean Filters)

[sprite]

Ever hungry creatures, humans always want more; take me for example. Though this fantastic emulator supports numerous nice render methods, it still misses image filters of my favorite style. I know that developers have more important things to do, so when they get those out of the way, I’d like them to consider adding the following image filters to ZSNES sometime for my complete happiness:




If this idea is appealing, I’ll get into more details.

[snkcube]

What is this rendering thingy called?

[DOLLS (J) [!]]

The first one seems to be trying to emulate more accurately the phosphor array of a TV screen.

The second one is just a black grid.

[sprite]

What is this rendering thingy called?

Well, I came up with those as I way messing around with SNES screenshots in Photoimpact (image editing program), so I don’t know if those have names.

Some MAME emulators implement a filter that looks similar to the picture in the middle (it’s called RGB effects), but it’s just a plain coincidence. The one that I did is basically this pattern tiled and merged into the image using the multiple colour blend method. (Those who are into graphics know what it is).

The bottom picture is basically a tile of this pattern laid over the tripled image. (White pixels of the tile are transparent).
I know that Visual Boy Advance supports a similar grid-like filter, but it is not related to this in any way.

[snkcube]

Interesting.

[KingKirby]

Turn scanlines on when you play, Mr. I'm Not Happy With A Clear Picture

[KingKirby]

Actually, a couple years back, or maybe it was in May of 2000, it's hard to be sure, some jackass, I think it was TeleKawaru, showed me a WIP of Snes9x with some crazy graphical style, it was like OpenGL bumpmapping, or maybe it was an early 3DFX build, who knows, I don't have much in the way of clear memories if you can't tell. At any rate, this filtering method was solid whoopass, but it wasn't a stable build so I didn't do much with it aside from gawk at Contra 3's sheer beauty. But the image had some nice crunchiness to it like one of those shots you've created there, I thought it was strange but it looked great nonetheless. If I were you, which I'm not, I'd do absolutely nothing with this information and go get drunk. Godspeed, my boy.

By the way, PhotoImpact kicks ass.

[sprite]

Well, I use Gary Henderson’s emulator a lot too, but unfortunately, because my video card doesn’t support Open GL, I never got to play with that filter, so I have no idea what it looks like.

"If I were you, which I'm not, I'd do absolutely nothing with this information and go get drunk. Godspeed, my boy."

So, is it on the house, you know, the drinks?

"By the way, PhotoImpact kicks ass."

Meh, it’s not nearly Photoshop. It's just that I use a very old version of it (4.5) for the most basic of my image editing needs as it's small, simple, and it loads quickly.

[Nightcrawler]

What about this filter do you people like? To me, that filter 'dirties' the screen and I don't like it. I don't like scan lines either though. None of those filters that darkens and 'dirties' the screen like that.

[Agozer]

What about this filter do you people like? To me, that filter 'dirties' the screen and I don't like it. I don't like scan lines either though. None of those filters that darkens and 'dirties' the screen like that.

Personally I don't really like this filter, although I use scanlines in some emulators.

[the_rhino]

What about this filter do you people like? To me, that filter 'dirties' the screen and I don't like it. I don't like scan lines either though. None of those filters that darkens and 'dirties' the screen like that.

I agree I dont like it either. Too grainy, if I wanted a grainy screen Id buy another SNES and hook it up to my TV. I use an emulator so it isnt all grainy.

[Reznor007]

I prefer MAME/MESS's filters.

EDIT- Oh yeah, MAME/MESS use proper aspect ratio correction, so things look better that way.

[Spoony]

Another vote for "it just makes it look like there's a layer of dirt and grease on the screen, what's wrong with you people" here. Personally, I like a nice, clear picture.

[rage46]

Me too.

[sprite]

What about this filter do you people like? To me, that filter 'dirties' the screen and I don't like it. I don't like scan lines either though. None of those filters that darkens and 'dirties' the screen like that.

Well, obviously replacing redundant pixels with black ones has a significant impact on the brightness of the image, but I don’t think it’s that horrible. Those “pixel guessing” scaler algorithms, like Salx, Scalex, HQx, etc, don’t “darken” the image, so they’d seem to be the perfect solution, right? The problem with those is that depending on the graphic style of the game, they don’t always yield pleasant results. To name a few: Donkey Kong Country, Killer Instinct, Mortal Kombat, Batman Forever, basically any game with graphics that were created using the non-traditional method of sequencing pre-rendered 3D images, or live photographs. Scaler filters work best with hand drawn style games, but even then, depending on the smoothness of shades and highlights (again, the graphic style), results can be not as beautiful. So you see we need to have numerous render methods to choose from. It doesn’t even have to be about which game looks best with which filter. It’s just that sometimes I may be in mood for scanlines/grids, and sometimes I’m a scaler guy.

I agree I don’t like it either. Too grainy, if I wanted a grainy screen Id buy another SNES and hook it up to my TV. I use an emulator so it isn’t all grainy.

The way I see, you like to keep things pure and that If it were up to you, you wouldn’t use any filter at all, but you see, viewing those games on high-res computer monitors shows how low-res all those old games really are. That’s the reason why filters were implemented. It was an attempt to maybe hide the ugly aliasing in low-res graphics, make things seem bigger that they really are. Consider the advantage of having it over not having it: When you don’t have it and want to use it, guess what, you can’t use it because it’s not there.

I prefer MAME/MESS's filters.
EDIT- Oh yeah, MAME/MESS use proper aspect ratio correction, so things look better that way.

I think those look quite similar.


BTW the one that you showed is that MAME RGB effect that I mentioned before. That’s exactly the one that I’d like to be implemented in ZSNES.

[KingKirby]

I do agree that it looks retarded, which is why my first suggestion was that he just turn scanlines on and quit being a crybaby. I used scanlines back in the days before Interpolation, but by the time 2xSaI came out I was way over it.

[sprite]

Quit changing the subject, KingKirby; you tell me whether it's on the house, or not?
Seriously, though, which one looks “retarded”, both?
Oh, and guys… don't you think I might be aware of the availability of the horizontal scanline option? Take your wildest guesses.
Alright, let’s forget the black grid thingy, ok? I don’t know about you, but I do find the RGB filter nifty, not that it can ever hope to be implemented, you know, with votes stacked insanely against me and all…

[Clements]

Well, you can do what MaxSt did and download the source code, add the filter, then present it to the main devs, who will then take the filter seriously. Manipulating an image in PhotoImpact and presenting it like that is not the best way.

[sprite]

Thanks. I'l do just that That is if I find the author of that filter.

[PFUNK]

Personally, I like the RGB filter, but I think it might garner more respect if it could be toned down... Kind of like how you have varying degrees of scanlines (25%, 50%, FULL) in ZSNES. On my slower computer, I like to have a filter with TV resemblance (interpolation with 25% scanlines) and on my newer computer, Hq2x.

[sprite]

Personally, I like the RGB filter, but I think it might garner more respect if it could be toned down... Kind of like how you have varying degrees of scanlines (25%, 50%, FULL) in ZSNES.

Yes, you are right. I'm trying to think of an algorithm that would allow such tweaks.

[badinsults]

If you can come up with the code to make this filter work, then I imagine it wouldn't be a problem putting it in the emulator.


Other than that only about 5 people would actually use it. :p

[Richter X]

I'd like to see a method that turns straight lines in graphics into vectors before stretching. That way it remains perfectly sharp while improving gfx quality. Though it'd be very hard to do.

[DOLLS (J) [!]]

Not only hard, but a bitch (or impossible) to optimize for running at the required speeds with current hardware.

[sprite]

If you can come up with the code to make this filter work, then I imagine it wouldn't be a problem putting it in the emulator.
Other than that only about 5 people would actually use it. :p

I don't think it would represent any big challenges to knowledgeable programmers, and people who developed ZSNES are pretty darn knowledgeable.

Oh, and you may never know for sure how many people would want to use it, unless you have the same skills this guy here has:

I'd like to see a method that turns straight lines in graphics into vectors before stretching. That way it remains perfectly sharp while improving gfx quality. Though it'd be very hard to do.

I’ve tried it. I’ve auto traced contours of a screenshot in Adobe Photoshop, and converted them into those resolution independent vector lines that you are talking about. Believe me, the results are pretty much the same as those output by them “pixel guessing” scaler filters. Except those would be way too computationally expensive to process in real time(I assume).

People complained that those patterns shown in my first post are overly darkened.
How about this one? I know it still reduces brightness, but you have to agree it’s much brighter.

VS