List of compatible games

[Yuber]

I've never played RT3(only seen videos), but I'm guessing it's one of those games that's actually better in ZSNES because there's less slowdown than playing it on a real SNES. If it runs faster, timing could be an issue if you're used to the original speed though. Those rotating mode 7 blocks that mimic textured polygons look pretty impressive for a SNES game made in '93.

[grinvader]

It doesn't play differently (that I felt - I have the realsnes version), but it's just not very good.
-Edit- oh wait major reading fail, I thought you were talking about super r-type.
R-Type 3 is the balls. On a spaceship.
With guns on the hood.

From what I played zsnes plays it slowly enough - mainly due to the typical "holy fuck there's too much to compute" cpu choke.

Plug the force in reverse and never look back.

ftfy

With the 5-way splash laser, amirite?

INVERSE SHADOW PULSE, BEEYOTCH

[Yuber]

I see no reason to play Super RT because I have the option of playing 1-2 & Leo on MAME. I'm totally new to the series other than testing the arcade ROMs in MAME to make sure they work, but it seems like a really unique shmup because of the big orb(dunno the term for it) you can attack & defend with. It kinda sucks that ZSNES doesn't reduce 3's slowdown, but from what I've seen, the slowdown is much less pronounced than in SRT. The SNES is my favorite system overall, but I wonder how much better it would've been with a CPU comparable in speed to the Genesis?

Just DLed RT3, but I'm TERRIBLE at shmups. Those bullet hell shmups like Ikaruga & Dodonpachi(are those considered BH?) are probably as close to impossible as games can get. I'm amazed by anyone who can beat games like that. R-Type games are hard enough.

Aren't the PC-Engine ports of 1-2 considered the best home ports? Sorry for going OT again; the whole shmup genre(s) interests me.

edit: I kinda like that big circular laser, and those big charged shots look pretty sweet.

[Gil_Hamilton]

Best port of R-Type 1+2 is the PlayStation's R-Types. Emulations excluded, of course.

[kode54]

What about Sony's own emulators? Aren't those passable?

[Gil_Hamilton]

You misunderstand. I meant "the best port that's actually a port instead of running the original arcade ROM images in a simulated R-Type board."


Of course, the Wii has R-Type emulated, but... *sigh* they emulated both the TurboGrafX AND Master System versions, but not the arcade board.

Hmmm... I wonder how the PS1 version compares to the X68000 version...
If nothing else, the X68000 should LOOK more accurate, since they have the vertical resolution to display the status bar properly instead of a transparent layer across the bottom of the game(the TG16 version adds vertical scrolling for similar reasons).

[grinvader]

the big orb(dunno the term for it) you can attack & defend with.

Forces.

Those bullet hell shmups like Ikaruga & Dodonpachi(are those considered BH?)...

Yes.

... are probably as close to impossible as games can get. I'm amazed by anyone who can beat games like that. R-Type games are hard enough.

Danmakus have the advantage of extremely reduced player hitbox to counteract the higher onscreen bullet density. Believe it or not, 'standard' shmups are about as hard, they just make players use slightly different skills.

[Gil_Hamilton]

Ikaruga isn't a proper bullet-hell. It's Pac-Man in disguise. Just match your ship color to the enemy color and you're invincible. In most circumstances you don't have to dodge a single bullet.

Personally, I prefer (proper) bullet-hell games, as they tend to favor skill as opposed to rote memorization.


I have a very love/hate relationship with R-Type because the early levels are just plain fun, but later levels get very punitive for lack of clairvoyance/stage memorization, and what seems like the only sane move at the time can railroad you into an inescapable death thirty seconds later.
It's still better than Gradius, though.

[Yuber]

I knew about the tiny hitboxes in BH games, but there's still so much shit on screen trying to kill you that it amazes me that anyone can beat games like that. I'm not patient enough to get really good at shmups, but I find a lot of them interesting from an artistic standpoint. I've probably played more Gradius in the Ganbare Goemon/LOTMN minigame than the actual game. To get more off-topic, it sucks that the other SNES Goemon games were never released outside of Japan. Mystical Ninja is one of my favorite SNES games outside of JRPGs.

I exposed my extreme lack of RT knowledge by not realizing the 2nd PCE card release was the 2nd half of the game, NOT R-Type 2. Isn't the PCE CD version the best early(pre-PSX/Saturn) console port? I compared videos of both the PCE hucard and CD versions to the arcade version(1st level), and they're pretty damn close. The arcade version has more shit on screen, better animation, more colors, and no flickering. The PCE CD version has better(subjective) music and long, voiced cutscenes that would've blown me away in '91 though.

EDIT: I totally forgot about the x68000 computers. I've seen videos of Capcom's near-perfect CPS1 ports along with the Castlevania remake that got ported to the PSX. The CPS1's 68000 was 10mhz(most of the time, sometimes 12) like the 1st x68000 release, but I think it had less RAM and was generally weaker. Wikipedia isn't a credible source, so much of this could be inaccurate. Final Fight, SSF2 and probably many others aren't even in Wikipedia's x68000 game list. The CPS1 ports are VERY close, but not 100%. In Final Fight, the 2nd area of the 1st level is missing its flashing lights. Could be the emulator; not sure. I prefer the FM-synth, CPS1 style music in SSF2 x68000 over the midi remixes.

I didn't even realize those x68000 computers existed until recently. Okay, enough rambling.

[grinvader]

Ikaruga isn't a proper bullet-hell. It's Pac-Man in disguise. Just match your ship color to the enemy color and you're invincible. In most circumstances you don't have to dodge a single bullet.

... ez modo maybe.
In normal, after the first boss, both colour shots get sent your way frequently. Stage 2 gives you obstacles to manage them, until the final line before the boss where you learn how to deal without cover (or die), then stage 3 just puts the glasses on and you deal with it.
Of course, all bosses feature some sort of bicolour attack.
It's proper bullet hell because you have a one pixel large hitbox (see Dot Eater stage2 strategies, you can slip between blocks with that), the bullet density making it impossible to dodge the other-coloured stuff otherwise.

The absorption mechanism doesn't make you invincible (there's the switch delay where you're vulnerable to both, and that means a lot of death for mis-switches later on).
Oh, also hard modo just fucks you up from the beginning, since every enemy shoots back bullets of its own colour regardless yours. Better trash your normal strategy and restart from scratch !

P.S.: ikaruga is danmaku. Seriously, I doubt even easy lets you handle the game as you make it sound. "In most circumstances" you're trying not to shit your pants.
oh, also: timed phases for bosses, unlike standard shmups where bosses last infinitely until you kill them.
Watch some dot eater replays for true dodging (and crazy switching as well).

I find a lot of them interesting from an artistic standpoint.

You should try the touhous. Even if you don't play yourself, grab some pro replays and watch warmly as the patterns blow your mind.

[Yuber]

I've never heard of Touhou, but just from a brief youtube search, those are some trippy ass shmups. Kinda resembles the weird, dream-like visuals I experienced on mushrooms and 4-aco-DMT a few years ago.(well, other than the anime girls)

I really dig Guile's SSF2 FM-synth theme. Urets battre! Sunic Upooha! Gout eet!

[Gil_Hamilton]

Grinvader: I just hate Ikaruga. I'm not always fair because of that.

[Yuber]

Gil: Do you find Ikaruga too easy, or do you just dislike its entire formula? I've never actually played it, but once I buy more blank CDs I may burn the DC version. Unfortunately my DC has a fucked up clock, so every time I boot it up I have to set the time. Thankfully, everything else runs flawlessly; it's an older model so I've never needed a boot disc. If I ever have to replace it, I'm worried I'll get a newer model that requires a utopia boot disc. Needing a boot disc for burned games wouldn't be the end of the world, but I hope other stuff doesn't start going south.

You mentioned R-Type being unforgiving in later stages; are there any shmups that aren't ridiculously hard? Dodonpachi is so hard that I can't even imagine beating it. It's a gorgeous game though, and there's nothing quite like playing old arcade games in MAME. I used to dream of owning arcade machines as a kid, and now I can play old arcade ROMs for free. Using my LCD monitor isn't nearly as cool as having a real cabinet with a beautiful CRT monitor, but MAME is still awesome.

CRTs are still the best if you need silky smooth motion with zero blur, and that's important for shmups.

[joe_devore]

Unfortunately my DC has a fucked up clock, so every time I boot it up I have to set the time.

sounds like the Lithium ion backup battery used for most CMOS/BIOS/CLOCK...

That is if the Sega Dreamcast even has one... if you feel like poping yours open to find out...
I still have my Sega DreamCast ^_^;

[Gil_Hamilton]

Gil: Do you find Ikaruga too easy, or do you just dislike its entire formula?

I dislike the design of the game. My idea of a good time is weaving through curtains of bullets while laying waste to entire armies with relentless curtains of firepower, not shooting things in the right order to earn chain bonuses and playing with my ship's polarity to make me invincible.
If you need a Dreamcast shooter, make it Mars Matrix.

You mentioned R-Type being unforgiving in later stages; are there any shmups that aren't ridiculously hard?

All scrolling shooters are challenging. Even Defender and Scramble were hard, albeit very different kinds of hard.

And I didn't say late R-Type is hard. I said it requires rote memorization of the stage.
I hate games that REQUIRE memorization. You should always have a CHANCE of clearing a stage your first try. REQUIRING advance knowledge of what's coming is just cheating.

Unfortunately my DC has a fucked up clock, so every time I boot it up I have to set the time.

sounds like the Lithium ion backup battery used for most CMOS/BIOS/CLOCK...

That is if the Sega Dreamcast even has one... if you feel like poping yours open to find out...
I still have my Sega DreamCast ^_^;

Lithium != lithium ion.

I don't actually know which cell type the Dreamcast uses.

[grinvader]

You mentioned R-Type being unforgiving in later stages; are there any shmups that aren't ridiculously hard?

Shmups come from the arcade era, and their goal was to make players INSERT COIN until they 1cc the damn game.
And even then they made some with sliding difficulty where you need to plan your deaths properly to keep the bullshit under control, else it ramps to impossible at a point where you can't build your power back up and you're boned for the playthrough.
Nowadays it's cheaper to restart, but the difficulty was inherited.

Shmups are typically short, so replay value comes from challenges. So, raw difficulty, and highscores.

If you want to relax a bit (but not too much, heh), you can try U.N. Squadron, Axelay and Super Aleste (all three quality snes games). They aren't too tough, and have an easy mode.

[Yuber]

I have the arcade ROMs for UN Squadron, but I've never heard of the other 2. I'm not all that interested in most shmups from a gameplay standpoint(I will DL your suggestions though). It's mostly the art, seeing so much shit on screen at once, and those cool bullet hell patterns that draws me to them. I may try to get into them sometime, but even at arcades I was more of a fighting game fan. Also dude, you don't need to tell me what quarter munchers are; I'm 29 so I grew up during the very last arcade boom.(fighter boom) I really miss arcades; playing online just isn't the same as in person, and I loved the competitive atmosphere.

As for Ikaruga, I can see why a style like that would turn people off, but I've only seen footage of it so I have no opinion of it. As far as I know, the clock is my DC's only issue. Other than emulators, I mostly play my SNES and PS2. I play my DC when I wanna play CvS2, MvC2 or other fighters. The DC versions of those 2 games have much better image quality than the PS2 ports. I can pull moves off with a DC pad, but eventually I wanna buy another Saturn pad + 2 Saturn to DC adapters. That way I'll be able to pull off more complicated moves more consistently. DC controllers' d-pads are too damn floaty.

As much as I love my PS2,(especially because of BC) I really wish the DC had lasted longer. The DC' blew me away at first(SC especially), and despite being significantly weaker than the PS2, DC games usually had impeccable image quality. Wow that's a lot of rambling; I'm done.

[Gil_Hamilton]

Super Aleste

Don't you mean Space Megaforce?


Compile shooters are always good, regardless of name.

[grinvader]

Super Aleste

Don't you mean Space Megaforce?

No, fuck murkhan-only censored releases. Grab the japanese rom, enjoy some SFW boobs in your intro, one extra music track, and knowing that it's fucking ALESTE (which is a loooong series, unlike some unknown 'space megaforce').

[Gil_Hamilton]

Super Aleste

Don't you mean Space Megaforce?

No, fuck murkhan-only censored releases. Grab the japanese rom, enjoy some SFW boobs in your intro, one extra music track, and knowing that it's fucking ALESTE (which is a loooong series, unlike some unknown 'space megaforce').

You just be hatin'.

I don't remember. Does Space Megaforce have adaptive difficulty like Zanac? I'm pretty sure SOME Aleste games do, but equally sure it's not consistent across the brand(MUSHA and Robo Aleste don't have it, for example).

[odditude]

I have the arcade ROMs for UN Squadron

completely different game from the SNES title - think strider.

[Gil_Hamilton]

I have the arcade ROMs for UN Squadron

completely different game from the SNES title - think strider.

The SNES version is a Metroid clone instead of an action game?

[grinvader]

I don't remember. Does Space Megaforce have adaptive difficulty like Zanac? I'm pretty sure SOME Aleste games do, but equally sure it's not consistent across the brand(MUSHA and Robo Aleste don't have it, for example).

Some Aleste do, but not Super Aleste. Even in the crazy -3 difficulty.
Dying in the late stages is... not forgiving.

[Yuber]

I looked both version of UN Squadron up on YT, and their 1st levels are slightly different but it's not like the SNES version is that different. The 1st level has the same boss and everything. The SNES version sounds much better while the arcade version has better visuals and much more shit on screen at once. Dunno where the Strider comparison came from; you thinking of a different game?

Given its name, you should be playing as the most evil dictator in the world, and your high score should be based on how long you can deceive the UN(VERY long game). Or, you could play as the dictator's defender, argue with world leaders for hours on end, and the less you accomplish, the higher your score. Bonus points for the player with the goofiest, most hyperbolic rhetoric. The hardest mode would be playing as a world leader who wants to get rid of the dictator & his supporters, but you'd be looking at 1000+ hours just to get a single sanction bonus.

Speaking of Strider, that Genesis port is still fucking sweet. It was one of the best arcade ports ever at that time along with Ghouls. Unlike Ghouls, I've never come even close to beating strider; that game is HARD. Strider 2(NOT the shitty Genesis game) is a fucking awesome game as well, although it's not nearly as difficult as the 1st one. Both Ghouls and Strider have(around) half their animation cut out, but they're so close to their arcade counterparts that it's not that big of a deal. The Supergrafx port of Ghouls is much closer graphically, but the Genesis port has near-perfect sound. Never played the PCE Strider.

[grinvader]

Given its name

Another case of complete mangling while bringing it overseas, since the original was completely obscure back then.
Nothing to do with the UN, since they're fucking mercenaries.