Square Sound - Chrono Trigger

Post by **Nach** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:26 am

I've heard the complaints before, but I haven't paid that much attention.

Which version of ZSNES did Square games start getting problematic at times?

Can you also point out some points in Chrono Trigger where I can here it's definitly messed up now and was fine before?

snkcube · Post by **snkcube** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:46 am

I've tested Chrono Trigger on 1.337 and 1.35 and it sounded normal in Heckran cave. But when I tested 1.36, the sound started to become a problem.

Post by **Nach** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:53 am

Thanks I'll look into that, anything else?

BTW, Heckran's cave is what you do after you show Glenn the Hero medal, right?

snkcube · Post by **snkcube** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:01 am

Hmm, that's the only thing I can remember that was a common problem. And I have no clue about the Glenn part.

Post by **Nach** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:26 am

Okay I see exactly what happened to bring about this change.

Looks like something was changed for the better but not completed, I know the perfect man for the job

Just hope he's up to it. Don't expect this for a while though.

snkcube · Post by **snkcube** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:31 am

Nach wrote:Okay I see exactly what happened to bring about this change.

Looks like something was changed for the better but not completed, I know the perfect man for the job
Just hope he's up to it. Don't expect this for a while though.

Hopefully he's up for it.

Dead · Post by **Dead** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:32 am

I hope you find this useful...

Two sound effects that can be accessed almost anywhere, including the forest at the very beginning of the game:

The sound you hear when monsters die:
ZSNES 1.35 sounds a little more authentic than 1.337
sneese sounds very close, best I have heard
SNESGT is a close second, seems to add some higher frequency noise

The screaming sound enemies make when you initiate a battle with them:
I have not heard a version of ZSNES that does this accurately
SNESGT sounds very close, best I have heard
in sneese the pitch sounds a bit high

I tested these two sound effects with:
the real hardware
SNES9x latest public version
SNESGT " " "
sneese " " "
ZSNES 1.25 1.28 1.337 1.35 wip2002-10-04 wip2003-04-05 wip2003-05-17

Hopefully he's up for it.

If it is who I think it is, good luck.

Cloud Strife · Post by **Cloud Strife** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:39 am

Is it that SPC sound rape dealy that causes this?

Post by **Agozer** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:16 pm

Cloud Strife wrote:Is it that SPC sound rape dealy that causes this?

Yes, it is AFAIK.

Dmog · Post by **Dmog** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:06 pm

Register wrote: The screaming sound enemies make when you initiate a battle with them:
I have not heard a version of ZSNES that does this accurately

You're right. Other sound effects overal accuracy can vary betwen versions of Zsnes. But this sound, as far as I can see, as always been WAY off...it's just a 'beeeep'.

If I get it right, what people commonly call "spc700 raping" (ugh, really...) is actually sound samples that are very close to each other...or something to that effect (maybe someone should actually clarify...and I don't mean: "I'll clarify: it's the square sound rape thing" because that's not an explanation) and zsnes has trouble with these "close-to-each-others" sound samples...because of the known timing imperfections/problems.

Dmog · Post by **Dmog** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:09 pm

Cloud Strife wrote:Is it that SPC sound rape dealy that causes this?

The spc700, as far as I know, as never been raped. Your milleage may vary.

Cloud Strife · Post by **Cloud Strife** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:33 pm

Why do emulators, such as SnesGT and SNEsE, have the "sound rape" behave normally whereas Zsnes lacks in this emulation? BTW Dmog, you're right about the cursor sound making a "beeeep" instead of a "beep". Is this fixable or something? What I mean is, do emulators just make a hack, or do they do it legitimately. If so, does the Zsnes team plan to do it legitimately. Even if it was an experimental feature, I would be fine with it, being in Zsnes.

Cloud Strife · Post by **Cloud Strife** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:17 pm

Keep in mind that I'm by no means ungrateful for Zsnes and that it has been worked on for several years. (1997)

Noxious Ninja · Post by **Noxious Ninja** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:34 pm

Cloud Strife wrote:Why do emulators, such as SnesGT and SNEsE, have the "sound rape" behave normally whereas Zsnes lacks in this emulation?

I'm not going to answer this since you've asked it several times before and gotten good answers every time.

Cloud Strife · Post by **Cloud Strife** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:24 pm

Understood.

Dmog · Post by **Dmog** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:43 pm

Noxious Ninja wrote:
Cloud Strife wrote:Why do emulators, such as SnesGT and SNEsE, have the "sound rape" behave normally whereas Zsnes lacks in this emulation?
I'm not going to answer this since you've asked it several times before and gotten good answers every time.

Yeah Gaijinx or whatever your nick was, you've asked the question several time now.

Botom line, unless a hack is implemented, you're probably not going to see the problem fix for a long time, if ever. Because to fix these issues, you would probably need to fix the timing problems inherent to zsnes. And that may not prove possible to accompilsh due to the way Zsnes was originally coded back in the days. There.

Cloud Strife · Post by **Cloud Strife** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:50 pm

.......

Cloud Strife · Post by **Cloud Strife** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:19 pm

Sorry.

Nightcrawler · Post by **Nightcrawler** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:30 pm

There are many different ways to write your core emulator and handle communication between chips.

Newer emulators were written with alot more knowledge of the SNES and therefore took different approaches at writing the core timing code and thus works better on the Chrono Trigger Sound at least.

The problem is the way ZSNES was written doesn't really allow for this bug to be fixed perfectly. Alot of timing code needs to be rewritten. No one who has the skills to do that to ZSNES has the motivation to do that and thus it never gets fixed.

As far as more accurate SNES emulation goes, ZSNES is becoming obsolete in my opinion. Active coders such as Nach are more skilled in other areas and those such as Pagefault who are more apt to handle these types of things have lost motivation and time to do so.

Aside from special chips, not very much real core emulation improvement has been made in ZSNES for a long time. I don't see this changing any time soon.

I look to Super Slueth and perhaps Byuu's WIP emulator for ushering a new generation of accuracy for SNES emulators.

Cloud Strife · Post by **Cloud Strife** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:37 pm

Okay, I'd no idea how freakin' difficult it is to get the SPC700 chip timing to work correctly. (Crap, if I only knew computer programming, I'd help toward it!)

Post by **Nach** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:06 pm

I leave the topic for a few hours, and everyone comes back talking about everything like they know everything...

Instead of random speculation, wait a bit, I'll post more info when it becomes available.