Best Feature of zSNES

[B;lly]

I saw something today, so amazing that I had to come post about it....
Here's my story:

My laptop's got a 1280x800 screen (and a 2.2Ghz A64). So I use 1024x768 mode HQ3x. Today (for the 1st time...) I saw HQ4x on my friend's CRT display, and I was amazed! For those of you who are skeptical, try it.

Now, follow me here...
On a 1280x1024 display we use HQ4x, equals 1024x896. If we had a mode that was [written w/ x,y coordinates] HQ(5,4) it would be 1280x896. This would result in the best possible image filter, AND use the whole width of your LCD!

As for us folks w/ shorter screens (wide screens), cut that down to HQ(5,3) which makes 1280x672. It would be SO AWESOME to use the whole screen! (and much higher image quality also). Right now its just HQ3x, a small 768x672 box on a huge 1280x800 display. These "HQ5x" filters would make a HUGE difference in image quality for zSNES.

[snkcube]

I don't know why you need "HQ5X filter. Seems like it'll kill your CPU.

[B;lly]

Well, my CPU doesn't have any problem with with HQ4x in most cases. The problem is that I can only play at HQ3x with my laptop display. 3x5 should actually use LESS cpu power than 4x4... and it would look wonderfull!

[MaxSt]

I thought about adding more video modes, because there are lots of widescreens out there.

But the better way would be to implement a "D" mode only - means big black side borders. "S" modes would be too wide. The same about HQ5x3 - crazy aspect ratio, too wide.

MaxSt.

[B;lly]

I don't ever use "S" modes because of reduces image quality. Doing something like stretching an image to 1024x768, and then stretching that image to 1280x800, is just wrong!

I do, however, like wide aspect ratios. Example: watching 4:3 movies on my laptop I always use the whole screen. Lots of people would agree. Sure, people look short (or fat, depending how you look at it...."wide"screen), but it's a good option to have around. Even the Gameboy Advance has it.

And, as opposed to the Gameboy Advance, a 5x3 would increase quality!

So, it would be a nice option to switch 3x3 vs 5x3, just as the GBA allows the user to choose. The worst that could happen is that all the Wide-screener's rebel, and boycott desktop PCs forever, and Transmeta will then rule the x86 world, all because we liked the new gfx mode so much...

[ThunderClaw]

As it stands, the HQ#x filters are all but unusable for a very healthy chunk of ZSNES's user base (IE: The ones with rotting hardware playing old games). I don't dispute that HQ5x would kick huge amounts of ass, but there are sort of bigger problems to deal with at this point in time, so I wouldn't hold your breath on it getting implimented. Unless someone gets bored and does it themselves or something.

[MaxSt]

I don't ever use "S" modes because of reduces image quality. Doing something like stretching an image to 1024x768, and then stretching that image to 1280x800, is just wrong!

You wrong here. "S" modes stretch images only one time, not two times.

And, as opposed to the Gameboy Advance, a 5x3 would increase quality!

5:3 would be too wide.

"D" mode on widescreen:


full stretch on widescreen:


It's 16:10 = 1.6 widescreen on these pictures. Second picture is kinda ugly.

You're asking for 5:3 = 1.666 (even wider). That would be even worse then second picture.

MaxSt.

[Nightcrawler]

I would just like to mention something on a side note.

I have a 17" LCD monitor with 1280x1024 naitive resolution.

This is a 5:4 aspect ratio. I now use the scaling mode in ZSNES because it doesn't look nearly as stretched anymore with the non 4:3 aspect ratio. I switch between D mode and S mode and see that there is very little resizing going on. In fact, the little bit of stretching it does do really makes it look a bit more like the TV in my opinion, but that's debatable. It's just enough stretching, but not too much.

Anyone else notice this?

[Jdurg]

I'm still trying to figure out what the "best" image quality filter is for me. Frankly, they all look nice. I've got a Dell 2001FP monitor which has a native resolution of 1600x1200, so I just use the 800x600 full screen and really don't get any distortions or alterations. I had thought about asking for a 1600x1200 resolution, but realized that it wouldn't really make any noticeable difference for me.

[mike435]

oh cool heh

[B;lly]

Those were some pretty sweet pics MaxSt, thanks

You wrong here. "S" modes stretch images only one time, not two times.

Oops. I had thought that my display would stretch the image to it's 1280x800 when I select 1024x768 S mode.
EDIT: I just tried it, and that's what it does (double stretch). However, I can change that behaviour in my GPU settings.

I've got a Dell 2001FP monitor which has a native resolution of 1600x1200,[...]

The best mode for you is HQ5x (assuming you have a heavily overclocked, liquid-nitro-cooled CPU, with a voltage/PSU mod )
- - - - -
Anyway, I got a crazy idea. (suprised? ). There are many 4:3 aspect CRT's out there that people run at 1280x1024, which makes things look "squashed" (ie. see pics from digicam). The correct size would 1280x960, which was not supported on the computer I tested it on (w/ Intel Integrated gfx). In this case only, HQ5x4 would have no aspect-distortion, and HQ4x is "sqashed".

Solutions: Use 1280x960 mode, or get an LCD! Or make a "bug-fix" HQ5,4x filter...hehe i actually thought of an excuse for this (entirely in jest, though... )

Smiley #6 for this post

[grinvader]

Remember, each hq*x filter is different and any new one (>4) would require additionnal code from MaxSt.

[Phantom Lord]

Along the lines of the first poster, after many years of my ZSnes rom collection collecting dust, I fired up the latest ZSnes on my home theater PC connected to a 50" (1366x768) plasma. I proceeded to do the familiar configuration of screen modes and noticed the HQ3X option. My jaw hit the floor! I thought 2xSAI was incredible, but holy sweet bejesus Zelda 3: ALTTP looks *insanely* beautiful with HQ3X enabled! I went through a bunch of games and I'm just beside myself. Huge props to you Max! HQxX is pure genius. Thanks for giving me a way to enjoy the classics in a modern high definition style!

You say the "stretch widescreen" picture looks kinda ugly, but when you use a widescreen display (particularly for TV) you quickly become accustomed to things being stretched. In the case of CRT based widescreens or plasma displays, stretching the picture prevents burn-in, which prompts us to get used to it. I'm more than satisfied with 3x + stretching, but I assure you there's plenty of us oldschool gaming nerds with decent processing power that will happily take advantage of more modes.

[Gospel]

I always thought the 2xSAI filters were vastly inferior to the SuperEagle, and of course, they both look crummy compared to HQxX.

Although, that AdvanceMAMEScale2x or whatever it is in VBA is spiffy.

[Dead]

I would like to see SmartFlt put to use someday. It might make some Playstation games look better.

[Nach]

I'm still waiting for the Tetris filter.

[Dead]

Hmm? I got this when I googled "tetris filter". Text NWS. WTF?

Here's a somewhat more informative link: http://www.snes9x.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7170

It sounds like a cool concept. The HQXx filters seem to do that already, though.

[Nach]

The HQXx filters do not do what the Tetris filter is imagined to do.

[blackmyst]

if you've got a straight line going across the screen at say, 5 degrees, all current filters still render it as a staircase. This filter is supposed to smooth such a thing out?

[Nach]

The Tetris filter was about making squares and circles look super cool.

[Dead]

This is all I know about this theoretical Tetris Filter:

http://www.snes9x.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7170:

someone proposed a non-interpolating (non-blurring) display scale filter called "Tetris." This filter is so named because it converts pixel transitions into +/- 45-degree lines

Although the HQ filters do not convert anything into lines, what you see on the screen as a result of using them is just about the same as what you would see if a filter detected 45 degree angle "stairsteps" and rendered tham as lines instead.
Now if there was a filter that looked at bitmaps and detected more angles than that, including curves, and rendered them as such, with antialiasing, it would have a lot of potential.

[MaxSt]

Now if there was a filter that looked at bitmaps and detected more angles than that, including curves, and rendered them as such, with antialiasing, it would have a lot of potential.

HQ filters can detect not only 1:1 (45 degrees) lines, but 1:2 and 2:1 as well.
And it renders them with antialiasing. Look closely at test cases and you'll see.

MaxSt.

[Dead]

That's what I thought. Thank you again for the excellent filters.

[Nach]

This is all I know about this theoretical Tetris Filter:

http://www.snes9x.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7170:

someone proposed a non-interpolating (non-blurring) display scale filter called "Tetris." This filter is so named because it converts pixel transitions into +/- 45-degree lines

In other words you don't know anything about the Tetris Filter as that was some random user speculating.

[Dead]

Yes. So, is there any more info you can give me?