Secret of Mana Sound

d1git · Post by **d1git** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:22 am

So I don't know if this is where to ask this question, or if this problem can even be fixed, but it's about the sound in Secret of Mana.

I used to own it for my SNES, but then the game battery died so I could no longer save the game, so I decided to sell it. I've started to play it again on zsnes and I have been having a lot of trouble to make the sound like it was originally.

One thing - certain sounds [such as striking an enemy or some sounds in the menu navigation] cause part of the background music [usually the treble notes] get cut out... I don't remember this from the SNES version but I could be wrong in saying it wasn't there.

Another - the way thing sound has changed, I can't explain how... but maybe if any of you have played the game on both SNES and ZSNES you will know what to do to make it sound authentic...

If it's simply a problem with the rom, than that's fine... but if there is a way to fix it, I would appreciate any help I can get!

Dead · Post by **Dead** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:35 am

Hi d1git,

I am reasonably sure that part of the background music cuts out when you strike enemies in the cartridge version of Secret of Mana. I have the original cart and have played it many times. Also, I just recently started playing SoM with ZSNES 1.42 (I'm at the Pandora ruins) and, except for a few barely noticeable variations, it sounds the same as the hardware version.

Noxious Ninja · Post by **Noxious Ninja** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:38 am

Try it with Snes9x or SNEeSe and see if the sound is any different.

frankbrodie · Post by **frankbrodie** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:09 pm

SOM was one of the most 'glitch' ridden SNES games ever released IMO.

That's not to say that I dislike the game.
Owned it on cart till I sold it on ebay a couple of months ago. (or I could have compared the sound for you on SNES & ZSNES. Sorry.)

Shame about any problems with the sound really, (if there indeed is on ZSNES. I've not noticed in my couple of playthroughs on ZSNES!)
Because it's easily one of my fave SNES/Square soundtracks ever..

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:09 pm

frankbrodie wrote:SOM was one of the most 'glitch' ridden SNES games ever released IMO.

Indeed. Sucks the fun out for me. I've had too many crashes or other unrecoverable glitches.

Dead · Post by **Dead** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:05 pm

I got that with Lufia 2. Nothing ruins your motivation to conquer the deep dungeon more than having the game freeze after HOURS of no-save point monster slaying. Rrrrrrrr...

kevman · Post by **kevman** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:12 pm

This is not a glitch. It is a hardware limitation. The SPC700, the SNES's dedicated sound computer, is only capable of playing 8 sounds at the same time, unless you count the complex system that ToP and SO use.

Checking SoM's SPCs in Super Jukebox, much of the music gets uses 7 or 8 channels. So what happens when it goes to play a sound? You guessed it, it cuts part of the music out. This happens on the real SNES. You'll gind it happens in most games, though some hide it better than others.

Kirby Super Star gets around it another way; it only uses 5 channels for music except for parts where there are no sounds (endings).

Zsnes, and indeed all emulators, do not emulate sound perfectly. Some games will sound a little odd. Build yerself an SPC sound card and code a driver for an emulator, if it means that much to you.

Post by **grinvader** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:41 pm

kevman wrote:This is not a glitch. It is a hardware limitation. The SPC700, the SNES's dedicated sound computer, is only capable of playing 8 sounds at the same time, unless you count the complex system that ToP and SO use.

Even then, the SPC700 can only mix 8 channels. ToP and SO use additional software to mix 16 channels into 8, then send the result into the SPC700.

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:44 pm

kevman wrote:This is not a glitch. It is a hardware limitation. The SPC700, the SNES's dedicated sound computer, is only capable of playing 8 sounds at the same time, unless you count the complex system that ToP and SO use.

Checking SoM's SPCs in Super Jukebox, much of the music gets uses 7 or 8 channels. So what happens when it goes to play a sound? You guessed it, it cuts part of the music out. This happens on the real SNES. You'll gind it happens in most games, though some hide it better than others.

Kirby Super Star gets around it another way; it only uses 5 channels for music except for parts where there are no sounds (endings).

Zsnes, and indeed all emulators, do not emulate sound perfectly. Some games will sound a little odd. Build yerself an SPC sound card and code a driver for an emulator, if it means that much to you.

Most games try to limit the music so there's channels free for sound effects.

Secret of Mana is somewhat unique. It was being developed for the SNESCD, so they expected to have extra features that weren't available on the SNES. When the SNESCD got canned, they shoehorned what they had into a ROM cart.
The reworking left them without time to fix some bugs, and without space to finish the game. There's staircases that go nowhere, doors that can't be reached, and glitches out the wazoo. Including a poorly done sound engine that doesn't attempt to avoid effect/music conflicts.

whicker · Post by **whicker** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 1:04 am

meh, secret of mana is still a really good game though.

kevman · Post by **kevman** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 1:55 am

grinvader wrote:
kevman wrote:This is not a glitch. It is a hardware limitation. The SPC700, the SNES's dedicated sound computer, is only capable of playing 8 sounds at the same time, unless you count the complex system that ToP and SO use.
Even then, the SPC700 can only mix 8 channels. ToP and SO use additional software to mix 16 channels into 8, then send the result into the SPC700.

That's what I meant by complicated system

You enlightened me in IRC, remember?

Post by **grinvader** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:08 am

kevman wrote:
grinvader wrote:
kevman wrote:This is not a glitch. It is a hardware limitation. The SPC700, the SNES's dedicated sound computer, is only capable of playing 8 sounds at the same time, unless you count the complex system that ToP and SO use.
Even then, the SPC700 can only mix 8 channels. ToP and SO use additional software to mix 16 channels into 8, then send the result into the SPC700.
That's what I meant by complicated system

You enlightened me in IRC, remember?

Yes I do, and thought your post required some clarification. It sounded as if the games were making the SPC700 directly accept 16 channels.

Tallgeese · Post by **Tallgeese** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:52 am

Which now begs the following question:

Why in the blue hell hasn't Square remade SoM yet? I mean, they did Sword of Mana for the GBA, why not evoke more nostalgia by remaking SoM for DS?

At the very least kiddies who played SwoM without knowing the Mana series will be hooked to the brand name.

Aerdan · Post by **Aerdan** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:07 am

Sword of Mana is a remake of Seiken Densetsu 1, not Seiken Densetsu 4. *thwap*

kieran_ · Post by **kieran_** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:44 pm

Vareni Stargazer wrote:*thwap*

jackass

Tallgeese · Post by **Tallgeese** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:24 pm

EDIT: GACK! I had a brain mishap. Vareni's right, I mixed up Legend on PSX with Sword.

...That's what I get for trying to post at 3 AM. Fixed.

whicker · Post by **whicker** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:49 am

Gil_Hamilton wrote:There's staircases that go nowhere, doors that can't be reached, and glitches out the wazoo. Including a poorly done sound engine that doesn't attempt to avoid effect/music conflicts.

The stairway in the water palace DOES SERVE A PURPOSE, but you need to visit it at the end of the game.

At certain times, paths are intentionally blocked, especially on the sunken continent. Except for the getting back into the village where the boy was exiled from, there's really nothing major in terms of bugs. Yes, I've gotten stuck with the whip one or twice, but you quickly learn not to do that.

sorry for the bump

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:23 am

whicker wrote:
Gil_Hamilton wrote:There's staircases that go nowhere, doors that can't be reached, and glitches out the wazoo. Including a poorly done sound engine that doesn't attempt to avoid effect/music conflicts.
The stairway in the water palace DOES SERVE A PURPOSE, but you need to visit it at the end of the game.

At certain times, paths are intentionally blocked, especially on the sunken continent. Except for the getting back into the village where the boy was exiled from, there's really nothing major in terms of bugs. Yes, I've gotten stuck with the whip one or twice, but you quickly learn not to do that.

sorry for the bump

There's stairs in the Dryad's fortress too.

As for no major glitches...
I've had the mana beast make the main character disappear offscreen, never to return. Don't tell me there's no major bugs.

Tallgeese · Post by **Tallgeese** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:26 am

The Ninth Sword Orb bug. That's all we need to say THERE.

PHoNyMiKe · Post by **PHoNyMiKe** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:16 am

I haven't played it enough to see blocked stairs and doors, but you can set a bit in the saveram to walk through anything, which will allow you to reach these areas. I could pry make a par code for it.