Incorporating an Online High Score Database

[OrderlyRoom]

I was just curious as to how much convincing it would take to get the idea of an online high score database into a future ZSNES version? UberNES has done a very good job at implementing their online database, so to know that it is a technically possible concept makes it sound like less of an outrageous idea. Or does it sound rediculous?

[Noxious Ninja]

How does this work? Don't you have to basically write a save-file filter for every game on the database?

[kieran_]

Does it show if you used cheats, hacks, save states etc...?

[Nightcrawler]

Does it show if you used cheats, hacks, save states etc...?

Yes.. protection against cheating, hacks, and savestates is important or the database is useless. I don't think that's an easy thing to handle.

[Malcster]

Whatever features could be added to zsnes to make sure that no save states or codes were used, or the verify the ROM's hash, could just as easily be removed by someone compiling their own build. I don't see how this could really work on an open source emulator.

[OrderlyRoom]

Well, somehow Uber's capable of recording high scores and uploading it onto a viewable online high score database, not sure how. Now, if there's a way to do the same for a SNES emulator (though now that I think about it I'm not if there are as many 'high score keeper' games for SNES as there was on NES) then you would operate on a system of high score integrity where you give gamers the benefit of a doubt and trust them to upload true and honest high scores. (Pretty scary concept, but if ZSNES has the respect of it's targeted community, and I think they do, then gamers are going to be less inclined to cheat. (I sure hope.)

[Malcster]

and I think they do, then gamers are going to be less inclined to cheat. (I sure hope.)

Sorry dude you appear to have forgotten that this is the Internet. Look at the online FPS community if you want evidence that there will *always* be cheaters if there is the possibilit - and considering there is stuff like punkbuster to attempt to stop hacks in that particular case, I think a "there are no safeguards, we just trust you to upload scores" approach is totally pointless if you want to get any sort of meaningful scores.

Besides, I would imagine high score detection routines would need to be coded on a per game basis if they are to be added to zsnes. Good luck finding someone who can be bothered to add a significant number of games.

[snkcube]

This idea won't work that well.

[funkyass]

ubernes only tracks high scores for "25 of the best nes games".

which means no snes emulator would ever add that feature.

[Mark_Twilight]

Whatever features could be added to zsnes to make sure that no save states or codes were used, or the verify the ROM's hash, could just as easily be removed by someone compiling their own build. I don't see how this could really work on an open source emulator.

I guess this is the main point. There won't be such a feature in ZSNES just because it is open-source, as it was said, and anyone could cheat so easily that a hich-score list build with it would carry no respect.

[OrderlyRoom]

Ah, well. I thought I'd ask just in case it was by chance overlooked. It's a pretty crappy fact of life that although you would ask kids to play by the rules they just wouldn't. What's the satisfaction in cheating?

[Mark_Twilight]

What's the satisfaction in cheating?

It's a mystery, at least in this particular case. Such a kiddie stuff it is to cheat a high-score database just to stay artificially on the top.

Sometimes I cheat just to "know" a game better. I do this with RPGs I don't want to waste a lot of time to gain experience and know its plot. But this is a different case.

[creaothceann]

How about exchanging only the keypresses? Example:

• User A says: "Show me that you can get a time below x:xx:xx in Mario Kart on track x."
  
  User B starts ZSNES, tells it to log keypresses, loads Mario Kart and starts playing. When he's finished he tells ZSNES to stop logging, and ZSNES saves the recording to a file. User B zips the file and sends it to user A.
  
  User A starts ZSNES, loads the unzipped keypress file, then Mario Kart. ZSNES starts emulating the game and uses the keypresses of user B.
  
  When the playback has finished, user A sees if the goal has been achieved.

Of course that's not 100% secure, but makes cheating much harder.

[Joe Camacho]

How about exchanging only the keypresses? Example:

• User A says: "Show me that you can get a time below x:xx:xx in Mario Kart on track x."
  
  User B starts ZSNES, tells it to log keypresses, loads Mario Kart and starts playing. When he's finished he tells ZSNES to stop logging, and ZSNES saves the recording to a file. User B zips the file and sends it to user A.
  
  User A starts ZSNES, loads the unzipped keypress file, then Mario Kart. ZSNES starts emulating the game and uses the keypresses of user B.
  
  When the playback has finished, user A sees if the goal has been achieved.

Of course that's not 100% secure, but makes cheating much harder.

That's what .zmv files do, don't they?

[creaothceann]

Well, ZMVs could contain a hacked savestate.

[Nach]

Well, ZMVs could contain a hacked savestate.

The new ZMV format will have an option to make the movie start from init of SNES with no save state.