Yoshi's Island help

Traiklin · Post by **Traiklin** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 5:15 am

How exactly do I save in-game with Yoshi's Island?

I beat a castle and it's supposed to save but it never does and I can't just do the save state cause I only play it over the net for my girlfriend but we had another game screw up on us wen we tried that.

Post by **Agozer** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:15 am

If I remember correctly, Yoshi's Island saves your progress automatically everytime you clear a level. I could be wrong though as it's been a while since I've played it.

Edit: Useless fingers.

snkcube · Post by **snkcube** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:18 am

Agozer wrote:If I remember correctly, Ypshi's Island saves your progress automatically everytime you clear a level. I could be wrong though as it's been a while since I've played it.

You are correct, sir.

Post by **grinvader** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:00 am

Config->Options->SRAM Check&Save.

With that, ZSNES will save the srm file when it's supposed to (like a real snes).

Noxious Ninja · Post by **Noxious Ninja** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 5:09 pm

Perhaps the option that causes the most difficulty, and yet it is not enabled by default.

Why?!?!

Post by **grinvader** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 5:16 pm

It's nicer on system ressources.

*Iirc (i can be wrong) in the beggining of zsnes the default config was all disabled or on the minimal quality, mono, 8000Hz, and so on.

Ichinisan · Post by **Ichinisan** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 5:31 pm

Well, since SRAM is memory, a game *could* be programmed to modify portions of it on each cycle. If a file is updated on a mechanical hard drive each time the SRAM data is changed, this could be a serious problem. That is why the option is disabled by default.

I suspect that Traiklin's problem might be because ZSNES cannot create an SRM file due to read-only file-system/directory/media restrictions.

Noxious Ninja · Post by **Noxious Ninja** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:53 pm

Ichinisan wrote:Well, since SRAM is memory, a game *could* be programmed to modify portions of it on each cycle. If a file is updated on a mechanical hard drive each time the SRAM data is changed, this could be a serious problem. That is why the option is disabled by default.

Then update it in memory, and write it to disk a max of once per 30 seconds or something. Shouldn't be a problem for anything but laptops.

adventure_of_link · Post by **adventure_of_link** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:15 pm

OK then Matutinal, what do you suggest if I was on a laptop, which, I am.
Disclaimer: I got two desktops also.

Ichinisan · Post by **Ichinisan** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:39 pm

adventure_of_link wrote:OK then Matutinal, what do you suggest if I was on a laptop, which, I am.
Disclaimer: I got two desktops also.

I would suggest not using the Check+Save option. It's perfectly fine that ZSNES updates the file when you close the emulator, assuming the file can be written to.

Traiklin · Post by **Traiklin** » Sat Aug 14, 2004 4:04 am

I'm on a desktop with 512mb ddr ram 2.8ghz P4 so the resorce thing isn't a problem. I was just wondering cause Yoshi's Island is the only game that wasn't saving properly, I would beat a castle and it wouldn't save but other games that had you go somewheres to save auto saved it.

edit: Thanks grinvader that worked

Ichinisan · Post by **Ichinisan** » Sat Aug 14, 2004 6:26 am

If I coded an SNES program to read/write SRAM at every interval, and you ran it in ZSNES on your computer with SRAM Check+Save enabled, ZSNES would appear to lock up completely.

A hard drive is mechanical. Memory is electrical. Memory is thousands or hundreds-of-thousands of times faster than mechanical storage. (no matter how fast your computer is)

Kagerato · Post by **Kagerato** » Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:30 pm

Good thing most SNES games are programmed intelligently.

Writing to SRAM consistently or often is terrible practice. It's even worse to use save ram for storing common variables, like those that should be in low ram.

I would certainly hope (and presume) ZSNES checks whether a game has sram before doing any writes to disk. When sram (and/or the battery) is missing, that area of CPU memory acts just as expansion ram.

Ichinisan · Post by **Ichinisan** » Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:44 pm

Because some games do not use a battery, but still have SRAM...it is perfectly acceptable to use it as work RAM.

PHoNyMiKe · Post by **PHoNyMiKe** » Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:57 pm

yeah like starfox and other FX games. if zsnes did write the sram to file right after being modified on this game, then there'd be a lot of hdd usage

Noxious Ninja · Post by **Noxious Ninja** » Sat Aug 14, 2004 9:53 pm

Ah, I see. I didn't know some games used it as regular RAM.

Kagerato · Post by **Kagerato** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:27 am

You confuse save ram and expansion ram, Ichinisan. They're mapped to the same region of CPU memory; but the former exists only when there is a battery.

It is perfectly valid to write anything the program desires to expansion ram, and I said nothing to the contrary.

Ichinisan · Post by **Ichinisan** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 1:39 am

I said "SRAM".

SRAM is "Static Random Access Memory". Static RAM does not need to be electrically refreshed as aggressively as standard memory, so data can be retained for a long time with very little electrical power. The "S" does not mean "Save", therefore it does not imply the existence of a battery. However, even with a battery, portions of SRAM that are not used for retaining information could theoretically be used by some games as work RAM; and this would be perfectly acceptable. This is a good reason for the CHECK+Save option to be disabled by default. Disk-thrashing would be reduced because the file would be updated only when the emulator is closed or a different game is loaded. While the game is being played, the hard disk could idle in power-save mode and conserve a lot of energy/wear.

Kagerato · Post by **Kagerato** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 1:02 pm

Ichinisan wrote:I said "SRAM".

SRAM is "Static Random Access Memory". Static RAM does not need to be electrically refreshed as aggressively as standard memory, so data can be retained for a long time with very little electrical power. The "S" does not mean "Save", therefore it does not imply the existence of a battery. However, even with a battery, portions of SRAM that are not used for retaining information could theoretically be used by some games as work RAM; and this would be perfectly acceptable. This is a good reason for the CHECK+Save option to be disabled by default. Disk-thrashing would be reduced because the file would be updated only when the emulator is closed or a different game is loaded. While the game is being played, the hard disk could idle in power-save mode and conserve a lot of energy/wear.

You're right -- SRAM does stand for static ram. I never explictly defined it in any other way. Most of the time, static ram and save(d) ram are identical; therefore the terms end up being used inter-changably. The same cannot be said for save ram and expansion ram, or static ram and expansion ram.

I'd like to know how your static ram is being maintained without the use of a battery, though. Leaving the system on all day? :p Static ram certainly does not require the use of a battery. However, in the case of SNES games (the real topic of our discussion), batteries were used virtually exclusively to maintain the data. Therefore you can see where I make the connection between static ram and a battery.

The connection between static ram and save ram is different. It is denotatively derived. If a section of RAM is static, which technically means unmoving/unchanging, then it only logically follows that it must also be saved. RAM that is not changed and yet is not saved either is entirely useless.

Any area of the expansion ram where static and/or save ram is not mapped is still entirely valid for any use, just as you have said. And once again, I have said nothing to the contrary. In both the SNES and an accurate emulator, the leftover unmapped areas of expansion ram would not be maintained to any permanent source.

I have not even once said that the check and save option should be enabled by default. If I implied that, I apologize.

My main point here remains the same as before. Only a poorly programmed game would write to static/save ram repeatedly in a short period. There are many playstation games which are fine examples of this. Do you enjoy sitting at those annoying prompt windows waiting for a few bytes of data to be written? (In all likelihood, opening and closing the window with its drawing animations takes longer than the actual writes. Another reason this methodology is poor programming.)

Ichinisan · Post by **Ichinisan** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:36 pm

Kagerato wrote:
Ichinisan wrote:I said "SRAM".

SRAM is "Static Random Access Memory". Static RAM does not need to be electrically refreshed as aggressively as standard memory, so data can be retained for a long time with very little electrical power. The "S" does not mean "Save", therefore it does not imply the existence of a battery. However, even with a battery, portions of SRAM that are not used for retaining information could theoretically be used by some games as work RAM; and this would be perfectly acceptable. This is a good reason for the CHECK+Save option to be disabled by default. Disk-thrashing would be reduced because the file would be updated only when the emulator is closed or a different game is loaded. While the game is being played, the hard disk could idle in power-save mode and conserve a lot of energy/wear.
...
My main point here remains the same as before. Only a poorly programmed game would write to static/save ram repeatedly in a short period.
...

Ichinisan wrote:...
However, even with a battery, portions of SRAM that are not used for retaining information could theoretically be used by some games as work RAM; and this would be perfectly acceptable.
...

SRAM is RAM. It does not wear out from excessive reads/writes like Flash/EEPROM. Data is set/retained instantaneously. It is exactly the same as work RAM, though perhaps slightly slower to access because it must be read across the cartridge bus. During the SNES' day, SRAM was more expensive and higher-performing than the type of memory used for main work RAM, though it was limited to significantly smaller sizes (due to cost). In-cartridge processors like the Super FX chip communicate directly with the memory in real-time. It is perfectly acceptable to use the memory as work RAM, even if a portion of it is used for saving.

PHoNyMiKe · Post by **PHoNyMiKe** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 4:59 pm

this argument about sram is more idiotic than the ones about the correct spelling of s-dd1.

Kagerato · Post by **Kagerato** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 7:24 pm

Ichinisan keeps asserting many things that I already know and/or agree with, so I'll just quit responding.

Post by **Nach** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 7:36 pm

Anything your have read about expansion RAM and SRAM being on an SNES cart is nonsense.

Some carts contain SRAM, most that do have a battery to keep it's data stored when you turn off the SNES, some do not. Most notably some Super FX and SA-1 games contain SRAM but no battery.

NSRT gives read outs on the amount of SRAM a game has as well as if it uses a battery or not. To my knowledge, no other program does that.

Ichinisan · Post by **Ichinisan** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 7:52 pm

Kagerato wrote:Ichinisan keeps asserting many things that I already know and/or agree with, so I'll just quit responding.

You keep asserting that it is bad programming practice to use the SRAM as work RAM. It's not. Using SRAM is completely different from saving to non-volatile [save] memory as you compared it to.

Nach wrote:Anything your have read about expansion RAM and SRAM being on an SNES cart is nonsense.

If non-save SRAM is used, how is this not considered to be expansion RAM?

Post by **Nach** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 8:22 pm

You see docs and programs on the web which will tell you something like ROM+Expansion RAM+SRAM.

There is nothing remotely like that. The same chip used for backup on one cart is used for work RAM on another cart. There is no game which has two different RAM chips on it.

The RAM works as a place to store data and some games back it up and some do not. Hence SRAM is Static RAM, nothing more nothing less. Expansion RAM == SRAM. Do not defrentiate between the two.