Keyboard Delay with Vsync On

doongas · Post by **doongas** » Wed May 25, 2005 3:19 am

Here is my problem and i can't seem to fix it..
i am using zsnes with sony vaio laptop with 786 rams and 1.6ghz centrino
and winxp

when i turn on vsync or triple buffer i get the keyboard delay after playing for few seconds...

keyboard delay is like when i press the keys the control move much later.. its like slow reaction..

I tried all the resolutions and special effects(interpolation, Sai etc..) and they runs 60fps all the time but with vsync on, delay starts to happen.. framerate is still 60fps though..

well if i turn the vsync off, the game becomes responsive but become very ugly...

look like some choppy waves of tearing moves up & down..

Snes9x dont have delay problem with full screen double buffer on..

i tried older version 1.36 and WIP version they seem to have the same problem.. also i tried deleting CFG files and reinstalling 1.42 on different folder etc...

can anyone please help?
thanks for reading my post..

Noxious Ninja · Post by **Noxious Ninja** » Wed May 25, 2005 4:31 am

That's a very odd problem. Do you have the latest video drivers and DirectX?

snkcube · Post by **snkcube** » Wed May 25, 2005 4:35 am

Is there any programs running in the background?

Jipcy · Post by **Jipcy** » Wed May 25, 2005 6:42 am

Does the keyboard delay occur only after/during playing a game?

I have noticed that there will be some short keyboard response delays within zsnes (just using the GUI) if the system is taxed. But not in the way you describe.

doongas · Post by **doongas** » Wed May 25, 2005 7:10 am

thanks for the response..

yes i recently updated the video driver (intel extreme graphics 2)

i had no background programming running except wireless LAN and virus scanner( i disabled it)

the delay starts sometimes in a certain section of the game and then continues on.. for example in ninja gaiden, when press up and i climb up the building the ninja just keeps stuck on the building trying to climb up at the top even the button is not pressed.. when i wanna jump away from the building, so i press jump button and left.. ninja jumps off the building after like 2-3 seconds later...

another example, Area88( U.N squadron) game.. when i move the plane in the beginning, it moves ok.. when the scene get bit intensive and i press left right up down continueosly and fast to dodge the bullets, the plane suddenly go crazy and move in total delay like some hacker remotely controlling the plane or some ghost controlling the plane..
At the time when the delay happens i try to open the zsnes menu (press esc) even the zsnes menu opens in delay! (which after the plane have finished moving from delayed actions)...

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Wed May 25, 2005 7:41 am

I'm going to hazard a guess..

Although I believe integrated video is complete crap (especially of the Intel variety), you probably need to assign more memory to the integrated video card via the BIOS.

Though, I honestly don't know how much video memory ZSNES normally consumes...

Since Triple Buffering consumes more video memory, not having enough video memory causes problems...

doongas · Post by **doongas** » Wed May 25, 2005 7:53 am

yes i know the integrated cards are crap especially intel..
my doubt goes with the video card....
but zsnes works at 60fps as well as other emulators like kawaks nebula snes9x etc..

intel extreme gfx 2 dont have the HW T&L but with my laptop's CPU i got 4000 on 3dmark01 SE build 330 on 640X480 res.. which is comparable to geforce2 mx with Pent3 at least..

i tried the bios and there is no such option to manually assign the video ram to 64mb max..

could it still be the crappy intel integrated card fault?

doongas · Post by **doongas** » Wed May 25, 2005 10:28 am

I fixed it!!!

what i did was i switched off wireless button on my laptop which disconnects all the wireless network/internet connections...

zsnes works flawlessly now without any delays!! thanks everyone!!

doongas · Post by **doongas** » Thu May 26, 2005 12:29 pm

ARRRGGHH... the problem came back again... last time was just lucky.. i think its the intel extreme graphics 2 that is causing the problem with zsnes....

Post by **Agozer** » Thu May 26, 2005 12:30 pm

People who use Intel's integrated graphics have had problems before as well, so you are not alone. Just get a graphics card.

doongas · Post by **doongas** » Thu May 26, 2005 3:27 pm

i wont be able to upgrade video card in my laptop...

i just find something amazing.. something to prove that there is nothing wrong with zsnes.... i just tried the latest wgens genesis emulator and exactly same thing happened with vsync on!! it started delaying after sometime in the game..

i can now confirm that its my vga card...
but strangely i dont get this problem with nebula that does neogeo & cps2 emulation and i have the vsync on all the time..

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu May 26, 2005 3:32 pm

From my experience Intel is inferior.Im investing in AMD next purchase.

Post by **Agozer** » Thu May 26, 2005 4:52 pm

doongas wrote:i wont be able to upgrade video card in my laptop...

i just find something amazing.. something to prove that there is nothing wrong with zsnes.... i just tried the latest wgens genesis emulator and exactly same thing happened with vsync on!! it started delaying after sometime in the game..

i can now confirm that its my vga card...
but strangely i dont get this problem with nebula that does neogeo & cps2 emulation and i have the vsync on all the time..

Sorry, I forgot that you use a laptop.

What happens if you turn VSync off? Have you tried Tripple Buffering in it's place. Are you using Auto Frameskip?

doongas · Post by **doongas** » Thu May 26, 2005 7:21 pm

yes i am using the Auto Frameskip

Vsync OFF = No Delay, Tearing
Vsync ON = Delay
Vsync ON + Tripple Buffer = Delay
Tripple Buffer = Delay

same thing goes to WGENS (genesis emulator) but when Vsync is off WGENS have less ugly tearing.. tearing seems smoother.. Zsnes Tearing seriously choppy and moves up and down..

creaothceann · Post by **creaothceann** » Thu May 26, 2005 7:32 pm

doongas wrote:same thing goes to WGENS (genesis emulator) but when Vsync is off WGENS have less ugly tearing.. tearing seems smoother.. Zsnes Tearing seriously choppy and moves up and down..

Because WGENS' actual framerate is closer to the display's framerate.
Run a more demanding SNES game, and the result could be different.

doongas · Post by **doongas** » Thu May 26, 2005 7:38 pm

creaothceann wrote:
doongas wrote:same thing goes to WGENS (genesis emulator) but when Vsync is off WGENS have less ugly tearing.. tearing seems smoother.. Zsnes Tearing seriously choppy and moves up and down..
Because WGENS' actual framerate is closer to the display's framerate.
Run a more demanding SNES game, and the result could be different.

i didnt get what you said "actual framerate is closer to the display's framerate" both zsnes and wgens framerate display says 60 all the time..

zsnes tearing looks similar to kawaks tearing on my laptop..

Post by **Agozer** » Thu May 26, 2005 7:46 pm

It almost seems as if your Intel isn't fast enough to handle VSync or Triple Buffering, hence the tearing.

creaothceann · Post by **creaothceann** » Thu May 26, 2005 7:52 pm

doongas wrote:i didnt get what you said "actual framerate is closer to the display's framerate" both zsnes and wgens framerate display says 60 all the time..

ZSNES and WGENS emulate consoles at 60 fps, but they may be finished before or after your LCD has displayed a full screen. Hence the actual framerate of the emulators may be from 60.0 to 60.99999...
The VSync code catches the part behind the point.

Post by **Agozer** » Thu May 26, 2005 7:54 pm

It just occurred to me... Have you tried starting ZSNES with the -6 switch and then enabling VSync?

doongas · Post by **doongas** » Fri May 27, 2005 3:19 am

thanks for the vsync framerate info..

anyways i tried -6 option.. delay still exists but may be less..
delay seems more rare maybe because of -6 or i closed all apps and turned wireless off...

whats does -6 options do anyways?

kevman · Post by **kevman** » Fri May 27, 2005 3:33 am

Forces the refresh rate of your monitor to 60Hz, which is what NTSC super Nintendo games are designed to display. It prevents nasty tearing and lag effects as Zsnes tries to display at incompatible rates (if your monitor is set at 85Hz, and the game only updates at 60Hz, what do you do about the extra 15Hz)

adventure_of_link · Post by **adventure_of_link** » Fri May 27, 2005 3:35 am

The -6 option forces your screen to refresh @ 60Hz while ZSnes is running. This was inserted because some people were having problems using ZSnes @ <insert random frequency that is between 61-119 here>.
Agozer: Some laptops are fixed, and some are flexible. Meaning:
Flexible - Your hard drive dies, and you're like "Ohh noez!!!" But you can pay $40 or so to get another one for it, and replace it with little to no problem.
Fixed - Your hard drive dies, and you need to replace it, but you can't, because it's integrated into the whole board, and can't be easily replaced, if not impossible.
EDIT: Dammit, Kevman beat me to the Submit button, but thankfully my -6 description was valid

Clements · Post by **Clements** » Fri May 27, 2005 4:10 am

Controlled Force wrote:From my experience Intel is inferior.Im investing in AMD next purchase.

For laptop CPUs, it's the other way round though. The Pentium-M is Intel's only decent offering right now. We'll be seeing more of this CPU in our desktops if Intel is smart and discontinues it's floundering P4 line in favour of improved Pentium-M based processors to finally compete with AMD in performance terms. Intel graphics on the otherhand is garbage (but on a laptop it does the job and has lower power requirements etc.)

As for the thread, perhaps the Intel graphics cannot handle the additional overhead of the vsync/triple buffering. Lowering the resolution and using a DR mode could remedy this if you are using your laptop's native resolution, although you'll get some nasty scaling artifacts on the screen though the LCD limitation of not being able to use a different resolution other than native. If this is the case, then pick your poison.

doongas · Post by **doongas** » Fri May 27, 2005 5:31 am

With -6 option and vsync off tearing is much smoother like in wgens.. i could now stick with this tearing but....

Clements wrote:
Controlled Force wrote:From my experience Intel is inferior.Im investing in AMD next purchase.
For laptop CPUs, it's the other way round though. The Pentium-M is Intel's only decent offering right now. We'll be seeing more of this CPU in our desktops if Intel is smart and discontinues it's floundering P4 line in favour of improved Pentium-M based processors to finally compete with AMD in performance terms. Intel graphics on the otherhand is garbage (but on a laptop it does the job and has lower power requirements etc.)

As for the thread, perhaps the Intel graphics cannot handle the additional overhead of the vsync/triple buffering. Lowering the resolution and using a DR mode could remedy this if you are using your laptop's native resolution, although you'll get some nasty scaling artifacts on the screen though the LCD limitation of not being able to use a different resolution other than native. If this is the case, then pick your poison.

I have tried the lowest DR resolution and delay is still there with vsync on.. How can you explain why i don't get this problem with Snes9x?

Clements · Post by **Clements** » Fri May 27, 2005 6:09 am

Just use Snes9x then. It's not the end of the world - it's a brilliant emulator.

For the record, I never never experienced any keyboard lag in ZSNES with 4 different computers, one of which has Intel graphics of uni workstations, one being equiped with a 6800 Ultra. Never had any tearing either. I use joypads anyway. Again no lag.