Making SNES-Game-Retexturing-Projects possible....

Noxious Ninja · Post by **Noxious Ninja** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:18 am

And how would you say Doom wasn't 3D? Sure, it had 2D models, but all the levels were 3D.

Post by **Agozer** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:28 am

Noxious Ninja wrote:And how would you say Doom wasn't 3D? Sure, it had 2D models, but all the levels were 3D.

True. 3D and 2D mixed.

kieran_ · Post by **kieran_** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:59 am

Controlled Force wrote:much like Sony Playstation's 3D games weren't really 3d.

How is that?Because the PSopne didn't have a Z-Buffer?

Post by **Agozer** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:39 pm

Dean Trumbell wrote:
Controlled Force wrote:much like Sony Playstation's 3D games weren't really 3d.
How is that?Because the PSopne didn't have a Z-Buffer?

I guess that's what he meant. But that isn't how it is, now is it?

Nightcrawler · Post by **Nightcrawler** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:22 pm

I think it's an argueable point that the PSOne has real 3D.

No zbuffer.. so what. The hardware was still designed to do nothing but pump polygons. The GPU draws triangles. That's an inherent property of 3d. No 2d system I know of can draw pure triangles and make polygons.

The only thing tha that is missing is hardware handling of draw order according to the depth of objects(z buffer). I realize by throwing that out, you get rid of a fundamental 3d hardware tool, but I really don't think that's enough to say it's not a 3d system. If nothing else, the hardware doesn't lead me to believe it's a 2d system either! The 2d hardware support is fairly limited. I guess you could say it's a hybrid.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:58 pm

I think it did a splendid job rendering 2d,and then there's the whole 3D effect.Gave games like R-Type Delta a unique look and feel,a one of it's kind really.

Zuzma · Post by **Zuzma** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:35 pm

Noxious Ninja wrote:And how would you say Doom wasn't 3D? Sure, it had 2D models, but all the levels were 3D.

Well I guess the levels were 3D. The pc one used a ray-casting engine and used sprites for the monsters (they zoomed in and out). Some of the other console ports also used the same thing. I think the super fx version of doom uses a very different engine. When you go up to the wall in the snes version it almost looks like each pixel on the wall is a single sprite. That's the only reason I can tell it uses something different. Plus I guess the chip is used to zoom and scale sprites. It's some kind of risc processor right?

Edit: Not too sure about the playstation version of doom since I've never played it. It probably renders the walls as textured triangles like nightcrwaler mentioned.

kieran_ · Post by **kieran_** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:12 pm

Didn't the Saturn kick the Psone's ass at 2d beat-em-ups, especially when the ram cart was involved?
Come to think of it, Sega did have a whole butt load of add-ons for almost all of their consoles.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:36 pm

That's what killed them,instead of focusing on quality games they tried to make the "BEEEEG BOCKS" by selling their consoles in individual pieces.And unfortunately Nintendo is heading down the same road,lately.

kieran_ · Post by **kieran_** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:36 pm

Controlled Force wrote:That's what killed them,instead of focusing on quality games they tried to make the "BEEEEG BOCKS" by selling their consoles in individual pieces.And unfortunately Nintendo is heading down the same road,lately.

What the hell are you talking about?

Bent · Post by **Bent** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:37 pm

I can't figure out if this guy is a troll or just stupid.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:40 pm

See,Sega couldn't figure it out either,and then swoooooosh,it was too late before they'd realised.
thank you for the perfect example.

Post by **Agozer** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:23 pm

Shut the fuck up Force.

Yes, Saturn beat the PSOne in terms of 2D. Sega's downfall wasn't the amount of add-on for their consoles at that time, I think it's was bad timing and marketing strategies that weren't though well enough.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:42 pm

Another Segamaniac!!!!Good quality products need very little marketing to sell well in the real world I believe.People thought they were getting stiffed when Sega kept flooding them with all these consoles and add-ons and what not.And creating an atmoshpere where the customers feel ripped off is bad promotion for anything you're trying to sell that has your name on it,I can say this from personal experience.

blackmyst · Post by **blackmyst** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:06 pm

Controlled Force wrote:Good quality products need very little marketing to sell well in the real world I believe.

lolololololol

snkcube · Post by **snkcube** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:21 pm

Controlled Force wrote:Good quality products need very little marketing to sell well in the real world I believe.

Wow Force, you don't seem to know much. Products need to be marketed to sell well. Take the iPod for example. It was marketed everywhere and look what happened? If products don't get any marketing, then it won't sell.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:38 pm

I think the only reason why them pods sell well is because there is an abundance of them,the supply far exceeds demand.As for marketing nah,too many producers rely on marketing which is why people are starting to demand their government do something about the ever increasing irritating tactics marketers scheme up.Everything counts in large amounts!

Gospel · Post by **Gospel** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:59 am

i h8 u

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:08 am

Controlled Force wrote:Another Segamaniac!!!!Good quality products need very little marketing to sell well in the real world I believe.People thought they were getting stiffed when Sega kept flooding them with all these consoles and add-ons and what not.And creating an atmoshpere where the customers feel ripped off is bad promotion for anything you're trying to sell that has your name on it,I can say this from personal experience.

This revisionist history crap is getting ridiculous.
Sega did not bury themselves under add-ons instead of offering a quality product out of the gate.
The SegaCD was not the laughing stock of the industry.
The Genesis was not a ideous disaster.

Fact: The Genesis was a VERY popular system.
Fact: The SegaCD was quite popular for what it was(an add-on to an existing system).
Fact: NINTENDO was the one in trouble at the time, because the market WANTED CD add-ons and they refused to deliver.

As for the Saturn... the RAM carts never even made it to America as far as I know, and almost all of the RAM cart games worked with a base system anyways, so WHO GIVES A FUCK?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:33 am

Gospel wrote:i h8 u

don't h8 me cause I'm more beautiful than.

adventure_of_link · Post by **adventure_of_link** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:39 pm

No, he hates you because you're either being a troll, or just plain stupid.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:50 pm

Oh well you can't please everyone, open the flood gates n let em cry you a river I say.

bztunk · Post by **bztunk** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:57 pm

Gil_Hamilton wrote: Fact: NINTENDO was the one in trouble at the time, because the market WANTED CD add-ons and they refused to deliver.

Where did you get that from? Your ass?

Post by **grinvader** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:39 am

bztunk wrote:
Gil_Hamilton wrote: Fact: NINTENDO was the one in trouble at the time, because the market WANTED CD add-ons and they refused to deliver.
Where did you get that from? Your ass?

Oh-ho, I bet his ass holds more solid info than Controlled Force's whole brain.

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:34 am

bztunk wrote:
Gil_Hamilton wrote: Fact: NINTENDO was the one in trouble at the time, because the market WANTED CD add-ons and they refused to deliver.
Where did you get that from? Your ass?

From a couple years' worth of old game magazines, actually.
There was a LOT of negative press when they canned the SNES CD.

While modern common knowledge says that the CD add-ons were rip-offs, no one bought them, and they killed Sega, the fact is that they were rather popular devices at the time.

It must be kept in mind that they were ADD-ONS, not standalone systems. They aren't GOING to generate sales approaching that of the leading standalones, because their target market consists ENTIRELY of owners of a specific standalone, and NO ONE gets 100% market penetration.

If the SegaCD hadn't sold well, Sega wouldn't have bothered with the redesigned SCD unit to match the redesigned Genesis deck or the all-in-one CDX(and JVC wouldn't have done the X'Eye all-in-one).
By the same token, NEC wouldn't have rolled out a new PCEngine CD drive with every new remodeled PCEngine, nor the all-in-one Duo and Duo R(ah, the things America missed on that system...).

If you look at what people were saying AT THE TIME, NEC and Sega had the gamers' interests at heart, and Nintendo was just yanking everyone's chain.

NEC ushered in a new era of gaming with the TurboCD.
Sega brought it to the masses with the SegaCD.
Nintendo mocked the fans with the SNES CD.

The 32x was the add-on that tainted the concept for years to come.

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Making SNES-Game-Retexturing-Projects possible....

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