Patching games into NTSC format

[Guest]

CF, you fail at bumping threads, please kindly stop.
Nightcrawler: Thanks for clearing things up.
FireKnight: I have a similar patch on my HDD which converts the JAP edition of DBZ Super Butoden III to the French version, and even makes it PAL.

there is no point in turning a rom into pal unless the emulator doesnt support NTSC

[LobStar]

CF, you fail at bumping threads, please kindly stop.
Nightcrawler: Thanks for clearing things up.
FireKnight: I have a similar patch on my HDD which converts the JAP edition of DBZ Super Butoden III to the French version, and even makes it PAL.

there is no point in turning a rom into pal unless the emulator doesnt support NTSC

What if they want to play it on a PAL SNES?

[creaothceann]

Sure there is. Maybe someone wants to play it on his french SNES via a copier.
EDIT: As LobStar said.

Certain games such as DBZ Super Boutuden etc, only have english patches that turn the game into PAL format, and if I use something such as SNES Tool to modify that into NTSC the ratio of the screen is changed, or it causes other graphical problems. If I use Zsnes to force it to become NTSC it will have glitches.

AFAIK (correct me if I'm wrong) there are two things about a ROM that determine its speed: A flag in the (internal) header, and the code. The header tells the SNES the game's TV standard, and the code is designed to use this screen size & speed. NSRT can change the flag, but it can't change the code, which results in glitches.
A patch might be able to change the code, but there's no easy way to change it back.

Yes, PAL Stands for Phase Alternate Line. But I thought I read somewhere that the human eye can do ~24FPS?
PS: In NTSC, Interlaced is 29.97-30FPS, and Progressive is 59.97-60FPS.

That would explain why most movies are 24fps. But if so, why are games 60fps and why is there such a clear differance between 50 and 60 frames? [...] Also, how do I fix the bad checksum caused by patching a game? For that matter what is a checksum >_<

The fps required for fluid movement is tied to the environment, eg. the distance to the screen. Cinemas get by with 24 fps, TV sets need 50 or 60 Hz, and CRTs should use 100 or 120 Hz.

You don't need to fix the checksum. It's just a security feature to see if the ROM has been changed; it doesn't affect gameplay. Afaik SNES checksums are the sum of all the bytes of the ROM; CRC32 checksums use a more advanced algorithm etc.

[blackmyst]

The fps required for fluid movement is tied to the environment, eg. the distance to the screen. Cinemas get by with 24 fps, TV sets need 50 or 60 Hz, and CRTs should use 100 or 120 Hz.

No offense but....now you're just grabbing shit out of thin air.

I mean, the distance required to see fluid motion? That's just nonsense. Do you know that even though TV's use 50-60 hz, TV programs only move at 25-30?

Apparently nobody read my previous post.

there is no point in turning a rom into pal unless the emulator doesnt support NTSC

Yes there is.

It's ok to be a stupid fuck, you know, but not if you're going to be arrogant about it and pretending you know best.

[creaothceann]

The fps required for fluid movement is tied to the environment, eg. the distance to the screen. Cinemas get by with 24 fps, TV sets need 50 or 60 Hz, and CRTs should use 100 or 120 Hz.

No offense but....now you're just grabbing shit out of thin air.

I mean, the distance required to see fluid motion? That's just nonsense.

Then my source was incorrect, or I don't remember it well.
But somehow these things are connected, no?

[Kagerato]

I'd reason that since light covers any small distance instantaneously, distance is not a major factor in acuity of perception so long as the size of the observed object compared to the field of vision is consistent.

To use the movie/TV example, the movie screen may be much more distant, but it is also far larger. If one approached it so closely that only a small area was in the field of vision, perception should be noticably affected.

[funkyass]

movies are 24fps due to cost of filmstrip.

its the minimum needed to fool the brian into sensing motion, and an average feature being several miles of film, it makes a difference.

[Cyrus]

CF, you fail at bumping threads, please kindly stop.
Nightcrawler: Thanks for clearing things up.
FireKnight: I have a similar patch on my HDD which converts the JAP edition of DBZ Super Butoden III to the French version, and even makes it PAL.

The patch you have for SB3 is made by the same people who made the patch for SB1. It's a semi french/english/incomplete translation but it's pretty much the only patch to go with. The only DBZ fighting game on snes that has anything close to a complete english translation is Hyper Dimension... but that has letters more spaced out than terranigma.

[SquareHead]

movies are 24fps due to cost of filmstrip.

its the minimum needed to fool the brian into sensing motion, and an average feature being several miles of film, it makes a difference.

I could swear that I have seen the same in DVD's too. I thought I had seen NTSC 24fps dvd's since 24fps makes for smaller filesize. The player then ups it to 29.97 or 30, using some algorythm that duplicates some frames (please forgive spelling my head is broken today).

[bztunk]

I could swear that I have seen the same in DVD's too. I thought I had seen NTSC 24fps dvd's since 24fps makes for smaller filesize. The player then ups it to 29.97 or 30, using some algorythm that duplicates some frames (please forgive spelling my head is broken today).

True. It's called a 3-2 pulldown or something (too lazy to check).

[Nightcrawler]

movies are 24fps due to cost of filmstrip.

its the minimum needed to fool the brian into sensing motion, and an average feature being several miles of film, it makes a difference.

I could swear that I have seen the same in DVD's too. I thought I had seen NTSC 24fps dvd's since 24fps makes for smaller filesize. The player then ups it to 29.97 or 30, using some algorythm that duplicates some frames (please forgive spelling my head is broken today).

You are right sir. It is encoded at 24fps on the DVD and converted by the player to NTSC via 3:2 pulldown process. Here is a link explaining everything:

http://www.geocities.com/columbiaisa/dvd_glossary.htm

[Gil_Hamilton]

movies are 24fps due to cost of filmstrip.

its the minimum needed to fool the brian into sensing motion, and an average feature being several miles of film, it makes a difference.

I could swear that I have seen the same in DVD's too. I thought I had seen NTSC 24fps dvd's since 24fps makes for smaller filesize. The player then ups it to 29.97 or 30, using some algorythm that duplicates some frames (please forgive spelling my head is broken today).

You are right sir. It is encoded at 24fps on the DVD and converted by the player to NTSC via 3:2 pulldown process. Here is a link explaining everything:

http://www.geocities.com/columbiaisa/dvd_glossary.htm

If I'm not mistaken, you have the option to master your disk at 24 or native frame rate.


Also of note: Their description of de-interlacing as "line doubling" is only applicable to the most primitive. Your better de-interlacers create a proper full-size frame from 2 interlaced fields.

[Noxious Ninja]

I could swear that I have seen the same in DVD's too. I thought I had seen NTSC 24fps dvd's since 24fps makes for smaller filesize. The player then ups it to 29.97 or 30, using some algorythm that duplicates some frames (please forgive spelling my head is broken today).

True. It's called a 3-2 pulldown or something (too lazy to check).

Yes. It's also known as telecine.

[SquareHead]

I could swear that I have seen the same in DVD's too. I thought I had seen NTSC 24fps dvd's since 24fps makes for smaller filesize. The player then ups it to 29.97 or 30, using some algorythm that duplicates some frames (please forgive spelling my head is broken today).

True. It's called a 3-2 pulldown or something (too lazy to check).

Yes. It's also known as telecine.

Aha! Thats it! Because I was trying to re-burn downloaded content (NTSC 24FPS), and what I was trying like hell. For me though, after several days and fighting I half-assed accomplished it, but it still wasnt up to par. Although, later on, I learned that I could insert a flag somewhere that will make the DVD player do it for me instead of the encoder trying to force it.

[BootGod]

Neither the AC waveform noise nor the limited draw speed is an issue anymore. Both are holdovers from TV standards created a half a century ago, and are going to DISAPPEAR when DTV gets rolled out fully.

And interlacing should die with the changeover to DTV, but that would make life to simple, so they kept that ball of shit rolling with 1080i.

[Gil_Hamilton]

Neither the AC waveform noise nor the limited draw speed is an issue anymore. Both are holdovers from TV standards created a half a century ago, and are going to DISAPPEAR when DTV gets rolled out fully.

And interlacing should die with the changeover to DTV, but that would make life to simple, so they kept that ball of shit rolling with 1080i.

1080i exists because they don't ahve enough bandwidth to send 1080p over the air.

[Cyrus]

Ah everyone got deep in this discussion about frame rate an human eyesight. Now... can someone explain to me what is a checksum exactly, and all those other details Nach's tool shows?

[Clements]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Checksum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRC32

etc.

The point of this information in the context of NSRT is to work out whether a rom is a good dump or not.

[Cyrus]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Checksum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRC32

etc.

The point of this information in the context of NSRT is to work out whether a rom is a good dump or not.

Thanks, you were always helpful

[BootGod]

1080i exists because they don't ahve enough bandwidth to send 1080p over the air.

Which is exactly why 1080i shouldn't exist.

[Noxious Ninja]

1080i exists because they don't ahve enough bandwidth to send 1080p over the air.

Which is exactly why 1080i shouldn't exist.

Bleh. Agreed.