Yoshi Island has a Black Screen.

condector · Post by **condector** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:14 pm

Over a 1.36 version for ZSNES has this problem's... The CRC of my Yoshi Island ROM is:
"YOSHI'S ISLAND" [checksum ok] LoROM, 16Mbits, Type: ROM+RAM+BAT+SuperFX, Mode: 20, TV: PAL, S-RAM: 32KB, ROMId: YI Company: 01 CRC32: 7BDC6A78

In 1.42 and CVS version, this black screen ocurr. And in lower version's, the SDL has a problem.. in execution.

Thank's a lot.

Clements · Post by **Clements** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:16 pm

Try deinterleaving the rom with NSRT.

Cyrus · Post by **Cyrus** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:35 pm

Clements wrote:Try deinterleaving the rom with NSRT.

What does it exactly mean when a ROM is interleaved? Why does that seem to cause problems? The ToP ROM which I used throughout the years (because it gave me no troubles with patching [yes I know there are 4 dejap patches] as opposed to other ones) is inverleaved and yet it's never given me any sort of problems as opposed to ones that weren't interleaved. Maybe the other ROMs of ToP which I ran into had bad headers or something...

Post by **Agozer** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:58 pm

Interkleaving means that the data on the ROM is scrambled. The data needs to be de-interleaved before (Z)SNES can work with the data. Some copiers interlave the data by default AFAIK.

For example:

normal data (in order):

0,1,2,3,4,5,...

Interleaved data:

2,4,5,1,0,...

I'm sure Nach can nach and other developers can tell you more.

The Sage Of Time · Post by **The Sage Of Time** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:09 pm

Agozer wrote:Interkleaving means that the data on the ROM is scrambled. The data needs to be de-interleaved before (Z)SNES can work with the data. Some copiers interlave the data by default AFAIK.

For example:

normal data (in order):

0,1,2,3,4,5,...

Interleaved data:

2,4,5,1,0,...

I'm sure Nach can nach and other developers can tell you more.

I'm pretty sure interlaved is not done by any copier on purpose.. To my understanding, it is solely to blame of the person who dumped the ROM image.

In other words, there is no reason it should be supported. To reiterate what you said; theres nothing special about it, it's just a jumbled mess.

Post by **Agozer** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:11 pm

The Sage Of Time wrote: I'm pretty sure interlaved is not done by any copier on purpose.. To my understanding, it is solely to blame of the person who dumped the ROM image.

I wasn't sure, but if you know, then I'll take your word for it.

Clements · Post by **Clements** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:19 pm

I wonder why support for interleaved games still exists in ZSNES, and only support for interleaved SuperFX games was removed. I've been wondering about it for a while.

Post by **grinvader** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:37 pm

It's mainly because of ignorance when the ROMs were dumped in the olde days of yore. Some guys didn't know shit and just spammed the net with their crappy (over/under/just plain bad /)dumps.

Depending on what thing they were doing wrong, they ended up interleaving the stuff with 2 major methods iirc... but then some thought that a ROM was interleaved with method 1 (actually 2) and jumbled it even worse by reversing the interleave 1.

ToP is an even more special case. It's stored on 2 rom chips, 'big' and 'small'. I don't even remember if the correct order is s-b or b-s. Anyway, after that is even more interleave fun when people couldn't arse themselves to test the hirom mapping flags correctly.
Enough of the interleave hell. Clean your ROMs.

Post by **Nach** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:20 pm

Why do regulars keep asking about this?

I wrote this a while ago: http://nsrt.edgeemu.com/forum/kb.php?mode=article&k=2

I link to it now and then, but no one ever seems to read it, yet just keep on asking.

If you want to know read it, and next time someone asks, link them to it.

CyberBotX · Post by **CyberBotX** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:45 am

I think I read that article a while back. Even incomplete, it's still very helpful, Nach.

But I do wonder, are there people who still copy ROMs nowadays, even though most games have probably already been made into ROMs? I guess there might be, since there are probably rare games still not yet in ROM form, but how often are new ROMs even released out onto the Internet? And why haven't the people making the copies been beating with the clue stick about this?

Post by **Nach** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:53 am

CyberBotX wrote:even though most games have probably already been made into ROMs?

Well, I got a report of a dozen new ROMs dumped in the past two months. We probably have ~200 not yet dumped. Unless of course Korea really has a ton of games, and it's not just the two we have.

CyberBotX wrote: And why haven't the people making the copies been beating with the clue stick about this?

The people who send me info use NSRT, so it's automatically taken care of. Usually. As for other people just dumping and distributing on random networks... Well, nothing we can do about it.

Cyrus · Post by **Cyrus** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:08 pm

The dump of ToP I have has the following info according to NSRT:

Cart Name: TALES OF PHANTASIA
Header: GD3
Interleaved: EHi Interleave+Swap
Type: Normal + Batt
Country: Japan
ROM Speed: 120ns (FastROM)
Checksum: Good 0x7C57
Company: Namco Ltd.
Bank: Extended HiROM
SRAM: 64 KB
Size: 48 MB
Video: NTSC
Version: 1.0
CRC32: E9946B84

Nach's document says only 2 games are extended HiROMs and contain the header in the 128th block. Is Star Ocean the other? I'd check myself but I don't have the ROM on hand.

Clements · Post by **Clements** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:20 pm

My ToP rom is the same except it is deinterleaved and the header is removed.

Daikaijuu Monogatari 2 is the other Extended HiROM, not Star Ocean.

Cyrus · Post by **Cyrus** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:24 pm

Clements wrote:My ToP rom is the same except it is deinterleaved and the header is removed.

Daikaijuu Monogatari 2 is the other Extended HiROM, not Star Ocean.

Don't the DeJap patches for ToP require a header? Oh and has anyone traslated Daikaijuu Monogatari 1&2? If it's an extended HiROM there had to be something special about it.

Clements · Post by **Clements** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:32 pm

You can remove header offsets from patches with IPS.exe. All my roms have no header and all my translations work.

No one is translating the sequel AFAIK. It appears similar to Tengai Makyou Zero.

Cyrus · Post by **Cyrus** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:36 pm

Clements wrote:You can remove header offsets from patches with IPS.exe. All my roms have no header and all my translations work.

No one is translating the sequel AFAIK. It appears similar to Tengai Makyou Zero.

Sorry for the lack of knowledge but I have yet another question: Why would you want to remove the header?

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:37 pm

The Dejap patches for ToP required the ROM to have a header. There was one each for the interleaved and non-interleaved versions of ToP.

creaothceann · Post by **creaothceann** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:46 pm

FireKnight wrote:Why would you want to remove the header?

It's only required for copiers.

Clements · Post by **Clements** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:52 pm

FireKnight wrote:
Clements wrote:You can remove header offsets from patches with IPS.exe. All my roms have no header and all my translations work.

No one is translating the sequel AFAIK. It appears similar to Tengai Makyou Zero.
Sorry for the lack of knowledge but I have yet another question: Why would you want to remove the header?

Headers are additions made by copiers and are not present on the real carts. They are unneeded for emulators and can be removed to create a pure ROM image. Headers also make the filesize a little bigger. Modern GoodSNES sets also contain roms with no headers. I'd rather remove the header from the patch than alter the pure rom by adding unnecessary headers.

The Dejap patches for ToP required the ROM to have a header. There was one each for the interleaved and non-interleaved versions of ToP.

Indeed, I used the non-interleaved lowercase version and stripped the header away, and now it works perfectly.

Post by **grinvader** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:05 pm

FireKnight wrote:If it's an extended HiROM there had to be something special about it.

It's huge.

Liek XBOX.

No seriously. First guess you can try is ToP and DKJM2 are in the biggest ROMs out there.
SO is simply LoROM, but maybe the S-DD1 has something to do with that mapping choice.