Do you find this board useful?

[pagefault]

Back on topic please.

I will be editing this thread.

[Jipcy]

Why do people come to the ZBoard to ask questions, stupid or not? Because, through a series of choices and decisions, asking a question on the board eventually becomes the easiest method to get an answer to their question.

1. They are unaware that docs exist, or they can't find the docs. This is probably because they are using a WIP. Start including the WIP docs with the WIP program. The docs get updated essentially with each new WIP release. These changes, just like changes to ZSNES, are not final. So, we might as well include the corresponding WIP docs with the WIP program.

Also, I think there should be more references to the docs from within ZSNES. Add a Help option to the Misc menu, with references to the docs. Make a text overlay on the game window whenever the menu bar is up, saying "If you have a question about this program, please read the included docs, located in the same directory as the ZSNES program." Add an option to turn off the overlay.

2. They find the docs, but don't find their answer. This is because they read the docs completely, and the answer is not there. Or it's because they read the docs incompletely, and the answer may or may not be there. The docs are large and thorough. We should try to make them as user-friendly as possible.

3. Registering for the board is too easy. Replace the rules page (http://board.zsnes.com/) with a quiz that must be completed before forwarding the user to the forum. The first thing this quiz would do is point the user to the documentation website (http://zsnes-docs.sourceforge.net/). After that, it would force the user to at least READ the rules in order to correctly answer the quiz.

I think these three possibilities cover the vast majority of people who come here to ask a question. I think that implementing any or all of these solutions would make the ZBoard a (relatively) more difficult option to getting an answer to their question. This would thus reduce the number of people registering here to ask a question.

[pagefault]

I just don't like people getting flamed for asking questions. It doesn't make sense. If the person asks a common question that is referenced in the documentation then I have no problem with people saying that. It's just the way they go about doing it. Flaming people for things really isn't a mature way to go about doing things.

All I am saying is people are coming here for help, not to be flamed. I don't really care if people do it in the other forums. Just not in the ZSNES * forums.

[Lord Alpha]

I agree with Jipcy about including the docs with the WIPs again. That's something that HAS bothered me.

I donn't know how many newbies there are that use the WIPs, but they shouldn't have to get an older vesion of ZSNES just for the documentation, especially since a large portion is out of date, and AFAIK there aren't any new official docs (the CHM) included with ZSNES.

[FitzRoy]

I think what's funny about this whole discussion is far and away, most newcomers are more pissed about what a non-living entity does to their post than how other people respond to them.

zsnes (btw i'm too stupid to learn the name of the emulator)

If spelling the emulator wrong means you're a dumbass, then what's the difference between that and being hard on someone who

a. didn't have the common sense or self-sufficiency to read documentation
b. then came here to sign up and ask what's wrong, only to leave forever without ever posting "thanks for your help, that did the trick."

I don't really flame new people, or post much at all really. But if you ask me, most people get what they deserve. I've seen stupid flames though, and I agree that posting an image to mock someone is a little overboard. Such is the internet...

[adventure_of_link]

I'll second (or third) the possibility of wanting to add docs to the WIPs.

[Answer]

I guess these forums are helpful, my question got answered. My only problem is the people that post here... When someone asks a question that you think is SO easy to figure out, it may not be easy for them. Why do you give a damn WHAT they post, how does it hurt you or have anything to do with you? Let the people that want to give him an answer give him an answer and mind your own business.

[Sparkyboy]

GOOD POINT!!!!

[Palin]

I can see how people might not know what ".." means, but aside from that are there any other questions that get asked frequently? I mean, ZSNES runs nearly anything with zero configuration right out of the zip file. When I downloaded ZSNES for the first time 6 years ago I read through all of the documentation to make sure I understood everything. Since then I haven't touched the docs because pretty much all of the options and features are self explanatory.

The only reason why I came to the forums in the first place was to read the obscure emulation jargon in the dev section.

[xamenus]

I think what's funny about this whole discussion is far and away, most newcomers are more pissed about what a non-living entity does to their post than how other people respond to them.

zsnes (btw i have beans for brains)

That's a good point. I have felt a tad uneasy about the filter in the past. I know it can be annoying to see someone type zsnes (btw i'm too stupid to learn the name of the emulator) instead of ZSNES, but when you think about it, what's the big deal?

As for the WIP stuff, I wouldn't so much suggest including the zsnes-docs CVS than I would a warning text file. WIPs are unofficial, and when you start packaging them with documentation, I feel that WIPs might as well be called official releases.

I don't know of any other project that releases WIPs as much as ZSNES. Other projects get along fine without them, so why shouldn't ZSNES? When 1.43 (1.50?) is released, it won't really be a big deal to the many users who are using WIPs. WIPs degrade the value of official releases, IMO.

[Gospel]

Contributing to ZSNES, or the board is not free license to be a dickhead.

People are way too hostile in general to anyone new.

Ignoring what you deem a stupid question is far more useful than wasting time to flame someone.

Hell, this isn't Ztalk, but it's a good example:
http://board.zsnes.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5163

Guy asks about opinions on using an XBOX controller, Xamius posts less than funny 4ch reference, guy is confused and assumes anti-XBOX stances. Regulars become assholes, topic gets locked without anyone ever discussing what it was originally about.


I'm all for the required survey to register, as it could at least give someone half a clue as to what to expect before coming here.

[Deathlike2]

That's a good point. I have felt a tad uneasy about the filter in the past. I know it can be annoying to see someone type zsnes (btw i'm too stupid to learn the name of the emulator) instead of ZSNES, but when you think about it, what's the big deal?

It really isn't a big deal.. but the fact that you get flamed for even asking about the filter is very wrong.. I even have a post discussing it and well.. I'm not linking to it, but you can find it and get the idea. Noone besides the core of ZSNES forumers knows of its existance.. hence why the question gets asked.

GOOD POINT!!!!

This is coming from a person who didn't understand what he was told...

I guess these forums are helpful, my question got answered. My only problem is the people that post here... When someone asks a question that you think is SO easy to figure out, it may not be easy for them. Why do you give a damn WHAT they post, how does it hurt you or have anything to do with you? Let the people that want to give him an answer give him an answer and mind your own business.

It does matter what they post.. as when the question is answered in the documentation, this is redundent and annoying... but if you wanted to get a "nicer" response.. I believe how the Snes9x board deals with it... point to the FAQ forum and call it done...

I do think there is a fair portion of users that have legit inquiries though.. like not understanding the nature of the "Square Rape" which most people have moaned about.. but that's probably not in the documentation...

Perhaps the latest ZSNES documentation needs to be put in the files now seeing as the difference between 1.42 and pre 1.43 WIPs seems rather significant IMO..

[Jipcy]

As for the WIP stuff, I wouldn't so much suggest including the zsnes-docs CVS than I would a warning text file.

WIP docs for WIP releases. Alternatively, add "readme.txt" to the WIPs, that has an explanation of what a WIP is, and a url to http://zsnes-docs.sourceforge.net.

When 1.43 (1.50?) is released, it won't really be a big deal to the many users who are using WIPs. WIPs degrade the value of official releases, IMO.

It seems to me the next official release will be a fairly major milestone in ZSNES development. Perhaps, even, reducing the need for frequent WIP releases thereafter. Why does each "official" release need to be a big deal?

[Deathlike2]

It seems to me the next official release will be a fairly major milestone in ZSNES development. Perhaps, even, reducing the need for frequent WIP releases thereafter. Why does each "official" release need to be a big deal?

Somehow it really looks like a lot to accomplish for an official release.. like the neverending gap between 1.36 and 1.40...

I'll tell you this much.. just the "look" of the GUI is of major significance between 1.42 and whenever 1.43 will be out than 1.40 and 1.42... just compare the current (1.42, and maybe the pre-1.43) docs and the WIP... there's a HUGE gap...

[sweener2001]

Contributing to ZSNES, or the board is not free license to be a dickhead.

People are way too hostile in general to anyone new.

Ignoring what you deem a stupid question is far more useful than wasting time to flame someone.

Hell, this isn't Ztalk, but it's a good example:
http://board.zsnes.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5163

Guy asks about opinions on using an XBOX controller, Xamius posts less than funny 4ch reference, guy is confused and assumes anti-XBOX stances. Regulars become assholes, topic gets locked without anyone ever discussing what it was originally about.


I'm all for the required survey to register, as it could at least give someone half a clue as to what to expect before coming here.

man, the people that posted in that thread had no reason to be there. the 360 wired controller has been available for 40$, and it's not near as big as the S is. i've held it, and it's quite comfy, in my opinion. had i seen that when it was open, i think i would have come to his aid.


i find it true that some people jump on others too quickly, but there are other times when it's needed. my thrashing in the games discussion taught me a lesson. even though the argument in the end was nowhere near the same topic as it started, i came out wanting to flame others less.

i'm all for a registration quiz. heck, make EVERYONE take it so that it's fair. a couple rules questions, and a couple basic zsnes operations from the docs. it could help insure that when questions are asked, they're asked properly, and that they are hopefully real issues.

[SquareHead]

* NO ROM REQUESTS. Users who violate this rule will be banned immediately, no questions asked.
* Warez is forbidden. Don't ask for 'r3gged sci tech display d0ctor serial numbahZ' or anything stupid like that.
* When asking a question about ZSNES, make sure that it isn't already answered in readme.txt/faq.txt/netplay.txt, which is packaged with all ZSNES releases. Also make sure that the same question hasn't already been asked and/or answered in the forums.
* Don't needlessly harass or flame other members.
* No spamming, flooding, or posting to raise your post count.
* Don't ask when the next version of ZSNES will be out. It's out when it's out.
* If one of the moderators delete/lock something, don't repost it. It was done for a reason.
* Politics and religion/philosophy are not fun discussion topics. Just a note.
* If you can't take a few extra seconds to proofread what you're posting in the forums, then why should people take a few extra minutes to try and understand it?
* The IRC Channels are not for roms and warez so don't bother doing stuff like !list or @search, etc.

The NO ROM REQUESTS line, I think with all the recent threads related to this, shoul be modified to read NO REQUESTING SNES GAMES/ROMS/IMAGES/WAREZ. It may possible clear things up. But, then again who knows?

Also it seems like the dont' needlessly flame/harass rule in here is broke all the time. I think most of us can stand to relax some as many have already said. But in any event, the rules seem pretty rock solid.

[creaothceann]

I think what's funny about this whole discussion is far and away, most newcomers are more pissed about what a non-living entity does to their post than how other people respond to them.

zsnes (btw i have beans for brains)

That's a good point. I have felt a tad uneasy about the filter in the past. I know it can be annoying to see someone type zsnes (btw i'm too stupid to learn the name of the emulator) instead of ZSNES, but when you think about it, what's the big deal?

Maybe the filter could be changed to "turn zsnes (btw i'm too stupid to learn the name of the emulator) into ZSNES".

Of course you could then say that it encourages sloppy spelling.

[Tallgeese]

I think what's funny about this whole discussion is far and away, most newcomers are more pissed about what a non-living entity does to their post than how other people respond to them.

zsnes (btw i have beans for brains)

That's a good point. I have felt a tad uneasy about the filter in the past. I know it can be annoying to see someone type zsnes (btw i'm too stupid to learn the name of the emulator) instead of ZSNES, but when you think about it, what's the big deal?

Maybe the filter could be changed to "turn zsnes (btw i'm too stupid to learn the name of the emulator) into ZSNES".

Of course you could then say that it encourages sloppy spelling.

I like the filter as is over the suggested incarnation of a spell-checker.

[Jipcy]

The NO ROM REQUESTS line, I think with all the recent threads related to this, shoul be modified to read NO REQUESTING SNES GAMES/ROMS/IMAGES/WAREZ. It may possible clear things up. But, then again who knows?

Stupid people don't read stickies, regardless.

[Baldho]

IMO, Windows XP Home Edition is meant for the most ignorant of mankind. So, following its patern, I would suggest putting wizards and popup helps everywhere.

This, I think, is perfect for those ignorant people.

But it is not for me, and neither of you too. This crappy stuff is annoying and frustrating. Running at the speed of the slowest.

I hope ZSnes doesn't come to that point, unless a Pro version comes along.

If it's too complicated for you, then don't use it. If you want an easy way to play games, then get yourself a real Snes. ZSnes is obviously not intented for people with no computer knowledge. Why not put this as a warning somewhere? Or is it already?

[Deathlike2]

Making the program Windows XPish would be totally craptacular.. since it would give much bloat to ZSNES and "hell" for someone attempting to mess with the GUI code... you can almost feel the devs cringe on "GUI code"...

ZSNES isn't difficult to use... it does have a curve that requires some basic thinking.. and the only difficult thing would be like WTF the "." and ".." means... but nothing that good documentation couldn't cover...

[Baldho]

By reading documentations, you acquire knowledge.

With that in mind, i wrote:

ZSnes is obviously not intented for people with no computer knowledge.

[kamaitachi]

Flaming people for things really isn't a mature way to go about doing things.

All I am saying is people are coming here for help, not to be flamed. I don't really care if people do it in the other forums. Just not in the ZSNES * forums.

pagefault is right.

[MonkeyforaHead]

Give me server access and let me make a pre-registration quiz. I honestly believe that will filter out a large portion of the idiots.

Seconded.

Question 1: DO YOU LIKE PR0N (y/n) n

YOU PHAIL.


Anyway, I'm really not in a position to say whether or not I find the board helpful, as I've never really needed it for help. I learned everything I needed to from the documentation included with Zsnes (though I'm not sure I'd have been aware that there was any, had I started out with a WIP version), and some general fiddling about in the various menus. I've honestly seen much, much worse boards that are still tolerable to be around, so I'd say this place is doing well enough.

My own suggestion would be to post a big, fat, hard-to-miss link (preferably in bold, and bright red) to a universal FAQ, right on the board.zsnes.com entry page.