Request thread for resolutions

flowrent · Post by **flowrent** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:00 pm

I do a lot of stuff when i play..i often pause games and go to yahoo messenger or mirc or visit websites and it is easier to do that when you use windowed mode..
And i think windows should be as big as possible for better gameplay.
So that's why i thought of some intermediate resolutions : 912x684 for people who use 1024x768 and 1152x896 for those who use 1280x1024

Recap · Post by **Recap** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:26 am

Hi. I've been reading the whole thread and I'm surprised nobody asked for this: 256 x 240. It's for Arcade VGA card purposes - it doesn't support SFC's native 256 x 224 (so it's useless for this video card), so 256 x 240 is the closest one to get non-interlaced, full-screen visuals. Of course, 16 lines will be blank. SNES 9X does this by leaving the last 16 lines at the bottom as blank lines; I think it's better if you can get 8 blank lines at the top of the screen and the other 8 at the bottom.

Please, let me know what you do think of this.

Two more unrelated questions, if possible: When has been released the latest ZSNES version and is there any list of games with perfect emulation on ZSNES.

Thanks in advance.

Aerdan · Post by **Aerdan** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:26 am

Not on your life.

I refuse to support hardware that can't tolerate 512x448, on the grounds that said hardware also isn't likely to support anything that uses any of the high-resolution effects that depend on being able to use 512x448.

Recap · Post by **Recap** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:16 am

Sorry? The Arcade VGA card does support 512 x 448. I know it well 'cause it's the mode I normally use for Windows. How is it related to the 256 x 240 mode, anyhow?

creaothceann · Post by **creaothceann** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:59 am

512 x 448 (512 x 479 for PAL) is better for emulating since it's the highest resolution the SNES can generate. 256 x 224 (256 x 239 for PAL) works "only" with most games.

Aerdan · Post by **Aerdan** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 11:16 am

What creaothceann said, plus 512x448 is the best resolution for supporting all possible SNES ROMs. Anything less just won't work.

Recap · Post by **Recap** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:40 pm

creaothceann wrote:512 x 448 (512 x 479 for PAL) is better for emulating since it's the highest resolution the SNES can generate.

I disagree. Not only because that rez is almost unused by the software, but also because you're forcing to use an interlaced, non-full-screen display with a 15 kHz video card.

256 x 224 (256 x 239 for PAL) works "only" with most games

Sure. 99,9% of them. Not enough for you? Anyways, everybody assumes that they'll have to change the resolution mode when a non-standard game is played, but they normally chose the best mode for a full-screen display on 256 x 224 games, don't they?

What creaothceann said, plus 512x448 is the best resolution for supporting all possible SNES ROMs. Anything less just won't work.

Then why 256 x 224 is supported? I don't see your point, seriously. It'll work with most games and will make the emulator work at low-rez with the Arcade VGA, a very expanded card between those into emulation. I'm asking for something useful, which will mimic SFC's standard visuals better than anything, and just as an option for those who care. What's exactly the problem here?

Post by **pagefault** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:06 pm

I agree with Recap.

FirebrandX · Post by **FirebrandX** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:43 pm

I also agree with recap. What he's asking for is to be able to play 256x224 non-interlaced on his card by having the top and bottom 8 lines left blank (for a total of 240). If I had the card, that's EXACTLY what I'd want too. The key point here is non-interlaced. With 512x448, he'd have to play all roms interlaced, which is just gay when you shouldn't have to.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 11:02 pm

I personally don't care about non-standard resolutions being added to ZSNES since I'm not really affected by them (the fact that 1600x1200 was eventually added was a small highlight...)

I don't think it is worthwhile to request resolutions that are below the highest possible res the SNES can use.. simply because of the unnecessary support issues resulting for it (though, I haven't seen one.. but perhaps these arguments have happened before).

The only reason why low resolutions exist below the SNES max res is because performance was fairly important and most of them are inherited from the DOS port. I wouldn't advocate removing them but I would definately advocate against adding more to that list.

Edit: Missing word in bold

creaothceann · Post by **creaothceann** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:54 pm

Recap wrote:
creaothceann wrote:512 x 448 (512 x 479 for PAL) is better for emulating since it's the highest resolution the SNES can generate.
I disagree. Not only because that rez is almost unused by the software, but also because you're forcing to use an interlaced, non-full-screen display with a 15 kHz video card.

Well, yes. There are two issues here: the SNES output, and the size of your emulator window. As I said, true emulation requires generating a 512x? picture. How this picture is then transformed is the emulator author's choice; I don't think that interpolating down to 256x? is an unreasonable suggestion.

kamaitachi · Post by **kamaitachi** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:58 pm

I apologize for being slightly off topic. I just want to make sure that more people are aware that there are some NTSC games that output a 256x240 (256x238, 256x237, 256x239, whatever) screen. Please don't forget about these games!

This is a PNG made from the actual ZSNES screen output in 640x480 DR F:
The resolution of the game image appears to be 256x237

This is a PNG snapshot made by ZSNES:
Oops, a slight glitch

It's really nice that ZSNES displays this game correctly, in some of the fullscreen modes, at least.

Recap · Post by **Recap** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:42 pm

creaothceann wrote: Well, yes. There are two issues here: the SNES output, and the size of your emulator window. As I said, true emulation requires generating a 512x? picture.

Then again, I disagree. If 'accuracy' is the problem here, 'true emulation' requires generating a picture of the exact size to the one the original system outputs for every situation independently (and also changing automatically between them like the original system did). Displaying an originally 256 x 224 picture in a 512 x 448 area is as 'inaccurate' as 'displaying' an originally 512 x 448 picture in a 256 x 240 area. Whether if part of the lines are missing or blank is just a side effect of your displaying device, if you know what I mean.

How this picture is then transformed is the emulator author's choice;

And I agree there. Total accuracy ('true emulation') for the display is most likely impossible due to the different devices people use. Hence, there are currently lots of ('inaccurate') video modes to accommodating the picture for each one's taste/device. What I'm asking for is just one more.

I don't think that interpolating down to 256x? is an unreasonable suggestion.

It is. To this point, I can only suggest you to get an Arcade VGA video card and an RGB scart lead for it and start enjoying the 15 kHz (true low resolution) goodness. Then you'll understand that not having an option for the 256 x 240 mode is just painful. It's clear that you and Aerdan have made wrong assumptions based on little knowledge on the hardware.

Anyhow, let me remember again that 256 x 224 IS supported on ZSNES, destroying any of your arguments.

Thanks for your attention, anyway.

Recap · Post by **Recap** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:57 pm

Deathlike2 wrote: The only reason why low resolutions exist below the SNES max res is because performance was fairly important and most of them are inherited from the DOS port. I wouldn't advocate removing them but I would definately advocate against adding more to that list.

Edit: Missing word in bold

You'd advocate against an option which would just serve for more people to enjoy the program? Had a bad childhood or something?

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:53 pm

Recap wrote:You'd advocate against an option which would just serve for more people to enjoy the program? Had a bad childhood or something?

I hate people that constantly nag about adding something that serves a few people. Not that it wouldn't be nice to have those resolutions for that special software you use.. but the last guy got REALLY REALLY annoying. It's a similar argument that occured with "Why can't we set the color depth in ZSNES?"...

In any case, I'd prefer Bug Fixing > Extra Resolutions. You can have all the resolutions you want, but if the emulation is wrong.. then you really need to revaluate what the more important priorites are in emulation.

Gee, a shot.. no wonder I'm starting to really dislike the people who ask about adding stuff for their "Arcade emulation software" or whatever.

Recap · Post by **Recap** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:03 pm

Psst, it's 'hardware', not 'software'. The Arcade VGA card is the only commercial video card which allows to use your PC at true low resolutions (non-interlaced, 15 kHz display). That means that you can get exactly the same visuals than you got from your SNES (besides the '16 blank lines', but hey). It's, no doubt, the best item one can get for emulation of old systems and it's becoming quite popular in those territories with RGB TVs (Europe) and between people with RGB/arcade monitors.

As I said, I was surprised nobody asked for this feature before since I know more than a couple of emulation forums where people ask for/about this. This card's popularity increases with the time and if ZSNES devs are smart enough they'll understand that 256 x 240 support will become a necessity. I really hope even for themselves.

Said that, I'm new here and have nothing to do with previous discussions. I'm not a newbie to emulation nor someone who ignores the technicalities involved or ask for a stupid feature, though. So let's say that comments like yours are not exactly pertinent. There's a thread here to ask for new resolution modes if coupled with reasonable justifications. And that's what I did.

Fixing bugs is primordial, I agree, but is that comparable to adding a new video mode? C'mon. There're LOTS of them currently on ZSNES, and I'm sure that most even less justified.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:20 pm

Recap wrote:As I said, I was surprised nobody asked for this feature before since I know more than a couple of emulation forums where people ask for/about this. This card's popularity increases with the time and if ZSNES devs are smart enough they'll understand that 256 x 240 support will become a necessity. I really hope even for themselves.

I'd like to think any standard Windows resolution would be a necessity.. non-standard ones are there mainly because they were there long before the current dev group were here (and inherited from the DOS port).

Fixing bugs is primordial, I agree, but is that comparable to adding a new video mode? C'mon. There're LOTS of them currently on ZSNES, and I'm sure that most even less justified.

As I said, some of the non-standard resolutions are part of what was inherited from the DOS port. I think this thread is pointless as eventually there will be the ability to set a custom resolution (or whatever the current res happens to be) and this whole thread would be moot. Currently what really holds adding these modes quickly is from the poor coding that made it difficult to add resolutions in the first place.

Patrik · Post by **Patrik** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:30 pm

i would like you to add:

720x576 full screen

i use an vga->RGB scart cable and a PAL tv is only supporting this REAL resolution.

Recap · Post by **Recap** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:50 pm

Deathlike2 wrote:I'd like to think any standard Windows resolution would be a necessity.. non-standard ones are there mainly because they were there long before the current dev group were here (and inherited from the DOS port).

I like to think that there're actually no "standard Windows resolutions" more than "standard graphic card resolutions". And it then happens that not everybody uses "standard graphic cards". Some of us do like this emulation stuff so much that even buy video cards and dedicate PC setups specifically for emulation usage. So.

i use an vga->RGB scart cable and a PAL tv is only supporting this REAL resolution.

What?

Bahamut_ZERO_Clue · Post by **Bahamut_ZERO_Clue** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:33 am

Don't know how this would look but 1280x800 Wide Screen... I have a laptop and I have to use the 1024x768 cropped conversion.

Patrik · Post by **Patrik** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:13 pm

recap: http://www.idiots.org.uk/vga_rgb_scart/
i use my tv as a monitor, but with the resolution 720x576. VERY good picture quality for a tv

but zsnes does not support it

all other emu's i use (project 64, psxes, jnester etc etc) supports it.

Recap · Post by **Recap** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:02 pm

I see. You're speaking about HDTVs. I'm not much into the subject, but I assume your TV doesn't support 640 x 480p without downscaling? Hum. That's a problem with most LCD/plasma monitors/TVs, I think - they only support one 'actual' resolution so they scale the picture internally to fill the screen if the device outputs a different rez. An annoying area, that one of digital displays, especially considering how crap they are for (retro)-gaming. Good luck.

offreenday · Post by **offreenday** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:51 pm

Patrik wrote:recap: http://www.idiots.org.uk/vga_rgb_scart/
i use my tv as a monitor, but with the resolution 720x576. VERY good picture quality for a tv but zsnes does not support it
all other emu's i use (project 64, psxes, jnester etc etc) supports it.

same for me,i use tv as a monitor,and 720x576 FUllscreen support is a very good idea.

denisbergeron1 · Post by **denisbergeron1** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:05 pm

For us you have a wide screen !

offreenday · Post by **offreenday** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:04 pm

720x480 is my request, in fullscreen DS.
thanx to the autor if is possible.

ZSNES board

Request thread for resolutions

1920*1200