So who's getting Vista?

kode54 · Post by **kode54** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:14 pm

FitzRoy wrote:I am.

The second I heard kmixer was getting scrapped, I was sold

What are you talking about, the mixer is still there, only now it's in the user space. Go cry more about your mangled bits, you placebo freak.

paulguy · Post by **paulguy** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:45 pm

I used Vista RC2 for about a week and it had so many quirks and annoyances that I reformatted and reinstalled XP. It was sluggish and while I don't have an amazing computer, an OS shouldn't run slow on it. and it used SOOO MUCH RAM! At one point it was eating 800MB of swap file and 300MB of system RAM. That is UNACCEPTABLE! The sad thing was I wasn't even running Aero, I was using "Windows Classic" which looks no different from Windows 98. It kept screwing up and blocking incoming UDP which made torrenting annoying.

Final conclusion: I think they should work on it for another 2 years because it's not even close to being done.

adventure_of_link · Post by **adventure_of_link** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:52 pm

Joe Camacho wrote:Actually I thought that Macbooks had sucky Intel videocards, so noo videogames, I hope.

At first I thought they were all using PCI-E X16 ATi chips

Then Pagefault on IRC said they'd use nvidia because ATi and AMD merged :\

Oooh, just checked Apple's site for the macbook Pro, and they sport ATi Mobility Radeon X1600. But the macbooks have Intel bullsheist. Oh well. :\

Cyrus · Post by **Cyrus** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:46 pm

When an operating system takes as much system resources as a modern 3D game and forces you to do certain things you'd have to be the paragon of idiocy to use it for any other reasons than a test or for your job.

funkyass · Post by **funkyass** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:01 pm

all hail virtualization.

FitzRoy · Post by **FitzRoy** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:13 am

kode54 wrote:
FitzRoy wrote:I am.

The second I heard kmixer was getting scrapped, I was sold
What are you talking about, the mixer is still there, only now it's in the user space. Go cry more about your mangled bits, you placebo freak.

Actually, I think dumping kmixer could bring better controls over audio in general. It's true that there's no noticable difference between kernel streaming and waveout. The statement is a hyperbolic joke. Moving forward with the audio processing is not the only reason I'm interested in vista...

But really, you need to lighten up. You've been snapping at everyone lately.

funkyass · Post by **funkyass** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:11 am

the only change to the audio system is that you can control levels on a per-app basis.

Vista isn't worth it.

Echoecho · Post by **Echoecho** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:52 am

If PC games continue to be released on windows, then gamer dweebs will go running to Vista. Because DirectX10 will only run on vista. So if you're one of these guys, might as well adopt this crappy OS as soon as you can. Well in all fairness I haven't beta tested the current betas for microsoft... I mean haven't tried them, but microsoft sucks so I don't care. I'll rather spend time tinkering with opensolaris than seeking vista - now and when the final product comes out.

Cyrus · Post by **Cyrus** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:26 am

Echoecho wrote:If PC games continue to be released on windows, then gamer dweebs will go running to Vista. Because DirectX10 will only run on vista. So if you're one of these guys, might as well adopt this crappy OS as soon as you can. Well in all fairness I haven't beta tested the current betas for microsoft... I mean haven't tried them, but microsoft sucks so I don't care. I'll rather spend time tinkering with opensolaris than seeking vista - now and when the final product comes out.

DX10 only for vista? I hope not. I had heard rumours that DX10 would be released for XP even before vista would officially be released after it's beta tests are done. Not sure where I heard that, might have been someone on Guru3D who blurted that out once upon a time. I doubt my system can handle vista so I'm stuck with DX9 if that's the case.

snkcube · Post by **snkcube** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:08 am

Cyrus wrote:
Echoecho wrote:If PC games continue to be released on windows, then gamer dweebs will go running to Vista. Because DirectX10 will only run on vista. So if you're one of these guys, might as well adopt this crappy OS as soon as you can. Well in all fairness I haven't beta tested the current betas for microsoft... I mean haven't tried them, but microsoft sucks so I don't care. I'll rather spend time tinkering with opensolaris than seeking vista - now and when the final product comes out.
DX10 only for vista? I hope not. I had heard rumours that DX10 would be released for XP even before vista would officially be released after it's beta tests are done. Not sure where I heard that, might have been someone on Guru3D who blurted that out once upon a time. I doubt my system can handle vista so I'm stuck with DX9 if that's the case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX#Th ... of_DirectX

Prepare to upgrade if you want DirectX 10.

Nightcrawler · Post by **Nightcrawler** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:14 pm

I know Microsoft has announced DirectX10 will be Vista only, but let me tell you why that is a big steaming pile of shit.

With the last DirectX SDK download I tried out, it included a DX10 preview mini SDK in it. And guess what? It worked on XP as far as I know.

I don't think there really is any technical reason why it wouldn't work on XP if MS allowed it based on that. They already had many DX10 features implemented to work on XP.

funkyass · Post by **funkyass** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:20 pm

MS doesn't need a techincal reason.

kode54 · Post by **kode54** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:19 pm

FitzRoy wrote:
kode54 wrote:
FitzRoy wrote:I am.

The second I heard kmixer was getting scrapped, I was sold
What are you talking about, the mixer is still there, only now it's in the user space. Go cry more about your mangled bits, you placebo freak.
Actually, I think dumping kmixer could bring better controls over audio in general. It's true that there's no noticable difference between kernel streaming and waveout. The statement is a hyperbolic joke. Moving forward with the audio processing is not the only reason I'm interested in vista...

But really, you need to lighten up. You've been snapping at everyone lately.

Did I give you permission to talk back? No, I did not! Drop and give me... Hell, I'll tell you when you can stop!

No, really, have you been observing my posting habits or something? Are you stalking me?

Nightcrawler · Post by **Nightcrawler** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:15 pm

funkyass wrote:MS doesn't need a techincal reason.

Precisely my point. It's nothing but a BS reason.

alexz721 · Post by **alexz721** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:27 pm

If I ever upgrade to Vista it'll be way after it gets released. I didn't even upgrade to XP until SP2 came out, and that was only because I got a new computer. Granted, I really like XP now, but the insane system resource hogging of Vista is really putting me off.

kode54 · Post by **kode54** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:39 am

Hay, suppose MS does need a technical reason for DX10 being Vista exclusive, such as many of its newer features requiring a complete overhaul of the video subsystem? I dunno, those things like renderer context switching in the middle of a scene or even in the middle of a shader already sound like they need the new hardware.

Supporting that in the operating system sounds like it would require some major shoehorning in XP's case. Well, maybe. It's probably kind of like expecting the newer audio subsystem to be available as an upgrade for XP, but then they're not selling any games which require it. In fact, most newer games are likely to use OpenAL just to bypass it, since it prevents DirectSound3D from using EAX bullsheist.

franpa · Post by **franpa** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:15 am

http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windo ... ystem.aspx

heres a link to the packaging for the new microsoft products... enjoy

snkcube · Post by **snkcube** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:48 am

http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windo ... terms.aspx

They revised the licensing terms for Vista. This is great news.

kode54 · Post by **kode54** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:49 am

WDDM v2.0, support for which will be introduced with DirectX 10 display hardware, happens to bring finer grained renderer context switching. That sounds like something that will probably be useful with the desktop compositing engine, but not a whole lot else. Well, maybe if you run a lot of 3D apps simultaneously.

In light of that, I wonder how much fun it is to queue one or more OpenGL applications running under something like XGL? Hmm...

casualsax3 · Post by **casualsax3** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:23 am

I've been running RC2 for a few days now, and I have to say meh overall. Aero is nice - IF you have a good enough card to drive it. This is my work PC I'm running it on:
Athlon 3800+ X2
2GB DDR 533
2x250GB SATA Seagates

Originally I had a geforce 6200 in there - Vista wouldn't allow it to run Aero with dual monitors at 1280x1024. It WOULD let me run one at 1280x1024, and one at 1280x960, which was fucking retarded.

I ditched the geforce and brought in my Radeon x700 pro from home, and it's kicking ass now. Aero is just about the only good feature in Vista though. The start menu is miserably irritating and cluttered - and that's the overall feel to the whole OS. The control panel must have like 20 new options in it... and look what happens when you right click on the background and go to properties. Gone are the clean tabs:

Having the GUI hardware accelerated is fucking nice, the problem is that it's just not unified enough. Some shit looks like XP still, some like Vista, and some like OSX. Everything I've tried to run on it so far has worked flawlessly - GAIM, UltraMon (which was suprising, though the second task bar doesn't look quite right) Firefox 2, Winamp 5 and my iPod... and lots of other random shit.

It's also got a Spotlight type feature built in which works well enough.

Bottom line is that it is absolutely nothing revolutionary, it clutters some stuff up, but does a pretty job of it. If you have the option of Vista or XP on a new computer, no doubt go Vista. No real reason to upgrade though. I don't think.

Truth Unknown · Post by **Truth Unknown** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:59 am

Well if you think about it, Windows doesn't really change as much from version to version. Win 95 to Win 98 Kinda Leaves DOS, new hardware & software technologies and has a GUI Update. Win 98 to Win Me hardly uses DOS like stuff, again gets new hard/software technologies, and not much of a GUI update. Win Me to Win XP DOS support is almost gone, again new tech, and a GUI update. Kinda see where I'm going. Vista is like any other Windows version, a newer, fancier version.

Don't nail me on things I missed, I really don't know much of the evolution of the versions, but this is all of what I've noticed.

adventure_of_link · Post by **adventure_of_link** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:35 am

I'd personally still use XP for some of my heavy-duty gaming (like Battlefield 2, UT2004, etc)

funkyass · Post by **funkyass** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:55 am

casualsax3 wrote:Having the GUI hardware accelerated is fucking nice, the problem is that it's just not unified enough.

vista in a nutshell. Its like they are trying to do what apple's been doing for the last 22 years... except stoned to hell and back.

kode54 · Post by **kode54** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:15 pm

Hay wait guyes, you're forgetting all of the not so obvious things that didn't get canned, nicely summarized on Wikipedia. Of course, most people don't look at this list and immediately think it's Windows XP with desktop compositing.

Hay casualsax3, have you had an opportunity to utilize the per-application volume control? I didn't use it much at all, but I bet it's useful for muting your web browser if/when you feel like browsing shitty flash sites without interrupting your music.

casualsax3 · Post by **casualsax3** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:29 pm

Hey Kode, I've got the Mixer open, but it only has sound options for Speakers, Windows Sounds, and the GAIM buddy list - no winamp, firefox. I tried closing it and opening IE - and that actually somehow got rid of the GAIM option, so now I'm down to Windows Sounds and overall volume.

Oh - they also have this miserable fucking feature that tries to act like sudo in Ubuntu - it fails horribly, and hassles you when you try to do anything - like it would prompt me for permission every time I tried to launch GAIM. It also fucks with Aero, so you get a massive screen flicker when the prompts pop up.

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