Direct X 10 for Windows XP!

[ST Dragon]

So, anybody tried it yet?

http://www.techmixer.com/download-direc ... indows-xp/

[I.S.T.]

It doesn't have full DX10 support, and is buggy...

[paulguy]

http://alkyproject.blogspot.com/

Abandoned. And you know how this kind of thing goes. Once it's gone, it's gone.

We'll just have to wait for Wine to fully support it. They're pretty far on DX 9 if I remember correctly and are starting some on DX 10.

[Rydian]

9 and 10 are so incompatable that vista contains both. At the same time.

A port of 10 to XP have the chance of breaking many video drivers, and I don't think anybody wants to add another API translation layer or bring up memories of "glide wrapper". D:

[Deathlike2]

Still useless, since most DX10 specific stuff specific would be software emulated. It is more than unlikely than any DX10 code are in the 2K/XP drivers even if you are using DX10 hardware. I'm not sure if they would wrap around OpenGL (they should), but that still wouldn't accomplish everything.

[Grahf]

Who cares?

Most so-called "DX10 exclusive" features on current games are nothing but DX9 features grayed out for XP users.

Look at Crysis, for example.
Multi-million dollar game development done hand-in-hand with Nvidia and Microsoft; M$ even claimed it would be to DX10 what Halo was to XBOX.

What a pathetic lie that turned out to be, LOL.

Some simple config modifications, and all the DX10 options in Crysis can be fully enabled in an XP install; all the screenshots and video in the world have proven beyond a doubt that there is NO visual difference whatsoever.

Indeed, via some generous tweaking, an XP user can enhance Crysis's graphics far beyond what a Vista user with DX10 hardware would see with default settings options at max.


DX10's potential is real.
But current games don't use that potential.
EVERYTHING we've seen so far that's "DX10 exclusive" is perfectly and easily possible in DX9.

It's all a f*cking lie.

[snkcube]

Well, aren't most games not made entirely using DX10? If that's the case, then we'd be seeing a bigger jump in graphics, which would mean more money spending for new hardware.

[franpa]

Some simple config modifications, and all the DX10 options in Crysis can be fully enabled in an XP install; all the screenshots and video in the world have proven beyond a doubt that there is NO visual difference whatsoever.

So,
A) you can force the direct x10 features on in the direct x 9 engine? wrong.
B) you are only enhancing the quality and not enabling any direct x 10 features, i assume the quality difference between high and very high are so small your bad eyesight can't tell the difference. (edit: this is wrong)
C) if you did somehow enable features that simply dont exist in the direct x 9 engine, then you would see a massive performance loss unless you used direct x 10 in a compliant O/S with the right hardware.

[Hyos]

Franpa, you have obviously never played Crysis, especially with the natural_mod, am I right?

(The natural_mod gives you a specific config, it does not install any new features)

[Gil_Hamilton]

We should all just change our sigs to "Shut up franpa, you're wrong." so we don't have to post to refute him.

[doktor_kris]

He who speaketh without actual experience, he shurely is stupid.


..or something like that.

[Panzer88]

and you sir, are drunk "shurely"

[franpa]

re-read what i wrote and what i quoted. you can't enable the direct x 10 features with unsupported hardware/Operating System. the Natural_MOD does not enable said features either, it creates new and improved effects over the original Direct X 9 implementations and still uses Direct x 9 features to achieve the effects.

there's a good chance it does all this with a performance hit.

[Gil_Hamilton]

re-read what i wrote and what i quoted. you can't enable the direct x 10 features with unsupported hardware/Operating System. the Natural_MOD does not enable said features either, it creates new and improved effects over the original Direct X 9 implementations and still uses Direct x 9 features to achieve the effects.

there's a good chance it does all this with a performance hit.

Actually, you started by reiterating that DX10 features won't work on DX9. Which is irrelevant to Grahf's statement that most "DX10" games are simply graying out selected DX9 options unless they're on Vista.

You moved further forward by calling Grahf blind.

Then continued on to insist there would be a massive performance hit. Again based on your assumption that the games are honest, and if a game only makes an option available in Vista it is a DX10-exclusive feature.




You failed to refute his point, and were rude and insulting in the process.

Also: It's OS, not O/S.

[franpa]

and all the DX10 options in Crysis can be fully enabled in an XP install

So, he was in fact not referring to using direct x 10 features in direct x9?

[Gil_Hamilton]

and all the DX10 options in Crysis can be fully enabled in an XP install

So, he was in fact not referring to using direct x 10 features in direct x9?

Most so-called "DX10 exclusive" features on current games are nothing but DX9 features grayed out for XP users.

Look at Crysis, for example.

Perhaps technically he needed another set of quote marks for the sentence you quoted, but the intent was HIGHLY clear. That which Crysis labels as DX10 features are not DX10 features.
Only a complete idiot could misunderstand that post on accident.

[franpa]

So, your saying that because of a unofficial mod that applies different effects to the game and doesnt use direct x 10 for any of them, that it is making the game use direct x 10 features in direct x 9? if it used the games direct x 10 exclusive features instead of ones made up specifically for this mod by a unofficial developer. then i would agree i am wrong.

this is based on the 2 quotes gil_hamilton posted.

EDIT: so using a mod that uses direct x 9 features that are capable of matching Crysis's feeble direct x 10 features/support in quality means the mod enables and uses direct x 10 features under direct x 9?

[ST Dragon]

Is it just me, or is Crysis extremely boring?!

I couldn't care less if this is the most advanced (graphically) FPS in the world, but after playing for about an hour or so, I got so bored and stopped!
It features extremely boring gameplay, cheesy dialogue and a recycled story line. The overall setting is very similar to Far Cry!

I Removed it from my HD and moved on to Half Life 2 Episode 2.

I'll be sure to wait until a truly great DX10 exclusive game is released before I upgrade my GPU.

[Gil_Hamilton]

So, your saying that because of a unofficial mod that applies different effects to the game and doesnt use direct x 10 for any of them, that it is making the game use direct x 10 features in direct x 9? if it used the games direct x 10 exclusive features instead of ones made up specifically for this mod by a unofficial developer. then i would agree i am wrong.

this is based on the 2 quotes gil_hamilton posted.

EDIT: so using a mod that uses direct x 9 features that are capable of matching Crysis's feeble direct x 10 features/support in quality means the mod enables and uses direct x 10 features under direct x 9?

No... the point was that the DX10 features in Crysis are actually DX9 features, and simply changing a few config files can enable all of them.
Grahf NEVER MENTIONED a mod.

That was Hyos, who mentioned that it merely changes the config file, not the renderer.


Of course, if a modder can get visual effects identical to DX10 in DX9 with a hack he wrote in his spare time, you have to ask.... what is DX10 doing that makes it a necessary upgrade?



I also love how the most technologically advanced game on the market now suddenly has "feeble DX10 features" because they can all be enabled with a quick and dirty hack.



Furthermore, shut up franpa, you're an idiot.

[Johan_H]

Is it just me, or is Crysis extremely boring?!

I couldn't care less if this is the most advanced (graphically) FPS in the world, but after playing for about an hour or so, I got so bored and stopped!
It features extremely boring gameplay, cheesy dialogue and a recycled story line. The overall setting is very similar to Far Cry!

As I understand it, the intention was to make the graffx kids horny, not to make a fun game, so it shouldn't be surprising.
I mean, all it says on the box and all it has been marketed as is "game with super totaly awsum graphix like teh advancest visuals in the wurld".

[corronchilejano]

I found Crysis very entertaining. The AI is mildy challenging until you go into the woods, then they turn retarded. Overall, I found it fun, specially if u like throwing koreans around.

[Grahf]

and all the DX10 options in Crysis can be fully enabled in an XP install

So, he was in fact not referring to using direct x 10 features in direct x9?

I did NOT, absolutely not, state that true DirectX10 features can be used in DirectX9.

As Gil pointed out, you didn't read my post thoroughly enough.

I'll re-quote myself again:

Most so-called "DX10 exclusive" features on current games are nothing but DX9 features grayed out for XP users.

Look at Crysis, for example.

I never mentioned a mod either.

No mod whatsoever is necessary to enable the "DirectX10" options in Crysis either because.....those features actually have NOTHING to do with DirectX 10.
I think you merely misunderstood what I was saying.

In Crysis, there are "Very High" settings in the game options; "Very High" is grayed-out if you're are playing the game on Windows XP. In other words, ONLY a Windows Vista install playing in DirectX10 mode can run Crysis on "Very High" using the in-game settings.

CryEngine2 was touted by Crytek, Nvidia, and Microsoft as a the premier showcase of what DirectX10 can do, with screenshots of the game clearly labeled "DirectX10" and even comparison shots labeled "DirectX9" and "DirectX10" to show gamers the difference. What in fact was being shown were screenshots comparing "High" mode (with "High" labeled "DirectX9") and "Very High" mode (with "Very High" labeled "DirectX10). If you followed the marketing hype preceding the release of Crysis, you'll be very familiar with these screenshots and videos showing the differences and touting the power of DirectX10 and Vista.

"Very High" enables some of the following major graphical enhancements:
Shafts of sunlight through the trees
Parallax Occlusion mapping to make textures look 3D
Depth of field and motion blur applied to all moving objects
Advanced color grading and higher SSAO quality to give the environment more dynamic range of color
Water FFT (a method used to make water more 3D-looking and realistic)
More on-screen particles and light sources
etc etc

Ummm....but guess what?
Every single one of those features (yes EVERY SINGLE ONE) can be enabled on DX9 in Windows XP merely by going into your Crysis configuration file and manually enabling them yourself.

Don't believe me?

http://www.incrysis.com/forums/viewtopi ... =11614&p=1

Something controversial about Crysis is that by default you can't enable the 'Very High' level for any of the in-game Advanced settings under Windows XP, nor in Vista DX9 mode, yet you can under Vista DX10 mode. Initially it was thought that this was due to Very High being DX10-exclusive. However this is not correct, it's an artificial limitation imposed by Crytek, and in fact it was during the Crysis Multiplayer Beta that it was discovered that you can indeed force Very High mode in DX9.

To date there has not been discovered one single graphical enhancement tied to a specific variable in the entire game that cannot be enabled in DX9.

Initially some people insisted that the editing of these variables would actually have no impact on the game, merely that they could be changed in the config files but wouldn't show up.
Some blindly insisted that there were "subtle" visual differences between the games on DX9 and DX10 even with all the same variables enabled.

It's been tested time and time again, people with dual-boot OS's, screenshot comparisons, video comparisons.

No honest appraisal can possibly conclude that there are any visual differences whatsoever between running Crysis on DX9 or DX10 when all the same variables are enabled.

............and it runs significantly better on Windows XP too....

This can only lead to one conclusion:
There is NO graphical feature of Crysis that is DX10 exclusive.
The graphical features disabled in Windows XP and marketed as "DirectX10" are in fact nothing more than DX9 features.


If you read my initial post you would notice that nowhere did I dispute the fact that specific features of DirectX10 cannot be duplicated under DirectX9 or assert that DirectX10 has no more potential than DX9.

I never said anything like that.

What I did say is that as of this date, there exists no game which actually takes advantage of what DirectX10 "promises"; in fact, the DX10 exclusive features of current games are nothing more than high-end DX9 enhancements which are disabled in Windows XP. I can only assume this is a ploy by Microsoft to force people to use Vista.



As far as Natural Mod, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the DX10/DX9 issue. It's simply a mod which alters the color palette and lighting of the environment to make the game look much more realistic and less cartoony than it does out of the box.