Should I be using the WIP builds?

Waro · Post by **Waro** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:39 pm

Hi all,
I'm new here, and was wondering if the WIP builds were stable enough that I should be using them. Currently, I'm using version 1.36 since it was the last official build that I know of. Thanks.

Post by **Agozer** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:43 pm

You shouldn't be asking this question... Of course you should, no doubt about it.

The newest WIP is "lightyears" ahead of 1.36

snkcube · Post by **snkcube** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:45 pm

You should be using the WIP's by now.

jdratlif · Post by **jdratlif** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:10 am

Agozer wrote:You shouldn't be asking this question... Of course you should, no doubt about it.

The newest WIP is "lightyears" ahead of 1.36

Do you use the "development" version of all your software? Personally, I would shy away from it too if I didn't know better.

It would be nice if Radio or _Demo_ or whoever controls the zsnes.com site to place a recommendation in favor of the WIPs. The 1.36 version is marked the latest version.

It IS a question a newbie might ask, and I don't think he should be begrudged for it.

Maybe there should be a board sticky faq that covers issues such as these, since the website is quietly rotting.

Post by **Nach** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:24 pm

jdratlif wrote: Maybe there should be a board sticky faq that covers issues such as these

There is

jdratlif · Post by **jdratlif** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:42 pm

Nach wrote:
jdratlif wrote: Maybe there should be a board sticky faq that covers issues such as these
There is

Forgive my apparent eyesight failure, but where is this?

Post by **Nach** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:49 pm

http://board.zsnes.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9

jdratlif · Post by **jdratlif** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:25 pm

Nach wrote:http://board.zsnes.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9

I'm thinking more of a general FAQ on this board. That just tells you a new WIP version exists.

It also doesn't really make a recommendation that you use the WIP over the "latest release" on zsnes.com, which I think it should.

A larger question. When two branches of a program exist, let's call them release and development, which one do you grab? Release, or development?
I go for the release branch, unless I have information telling me I need the development for some reason. I wager most people are like me in this regard, but maybe not.

Just a thought...

Nightcrawler · Post by **Nightcrawler** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:27 pm

Someone should update the damn ZSNES site. This problem has been plauging everyone for the past few years now.

Either release an official version or stick a WIP version ink on the ZSNES site. This is rediculous. What's so hard about slapping on a version number and releasing it? It's been 2 years for gods sake. You can't tell me it's not stable enough. It works much better than 1.36 ever could hope.

ipher · Post by **ipher** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:29 pm

And this is exactly why we need to release somthing. The current official release is several years old now. I say when the glaring bugs in the WIP are addressed (SuperFX), there should be a release. Of course, i have no say in the matter, so ill just sit here quietly now.

-ipher

Post by **Nach** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:37 pm

jdratlif wrote:
It also doesn't really make a recommendation that you use the WIP over the "latest release" on zsnes.com, which I think it should.

No?

Nach wrote: The WIPs are signifigantly improved over v1.36

Some exciting recent enhancements include (but not limited to) DSP-2 support (Dungeon Master), Seta 10 support (F1 ROC 2), and Sufami Turbo support (~15 games).

Post by **Agozer** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:49 pm

jdratlif wrote:
Agozer wrote:You shouldn't be asking this question... Of course you should, no doubt about it.

The newest WIP is "lightyears" ahead of 1.36
Do you use the "development" version of all your software? Personally, I would shy away from it too if I didn't know better.

No, but it's different with emulators. Any progress compared to the old versions of an emulator is good in my book, so I gladly use these publicly released "development" versions.

jdratlif · Post by **jdratlif** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:52 pm

Nach wrote:
jdratlif wrote:
It also doesn't really make a recommendation that you use the WIP over the "latest release" on zsnes.com, which I think it should.
No?

Nach wrote: The WIPs are signifigantly improved over v1.36

Some exciting recent enhancements include (but not limited to) DSP-2 support (Dungeon Master), Seta 10 support (F1 ROC 2), and Sufami Turbo support (~15 games).

I don't see that as an recommendation of the WIP over the stable. I see that as a progress report.

The whole name WIP just reinforces that for me. It basically says, this isn't ready to be a release, but if you're feeling lucky, by all means.

I know this is entirely untrue. I'm just saying I don't think development versions are very trusted in general. The only (explicit) recommendation I have seen is by the users of this forum. Zophar.net has the WIP versions, but it puts them AFTER the 1.36 version. What is the message here?

I want something along these lines.

"The last release 1.36 is (severely) outdated and it is highly recommended you try the current WIP version instead".

I would like to see a board sticky faq, entitled something like "ZSNES FAQ: READ THIS FIRST". It can have forum rules (not that anyone reads those anyways, but you can quote it as you're locking the thread), zsnes questions like the WIP versions or common game problems (most reported bug faq and so on).

Would also be nice if the zsnes.com site would reflect the age of 1.36 and make an explicit recommendation.

Just my two cents of course.

jdratlif · Post by **jdratlif** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:54 pm

Agozer wrote:
jdratlif wrote:
Agozer wrote:You shouldn't be asking this question... Of course you should, no doubt about it.

The newest WIP is "lightyears" ahead of 1.36
Do you use the "development" version of all your software? Personally, I would shy away from it too if I didn't know better.
No, but it's different with emulators. Any progress compared to the old versions of an emulator is good in my book, so I gladly use these publicly released "development" versions.

Maybe it is different with emulators, considering they are almost always "beta software", but I still think people balk at the word development, especially when they see another link that says release.

Post by **Agozer** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:31 pm

jdratlif wrote:but I still think people balk at the word development, especially when they see another link that says release.

You're right. I think it's only natural to go with the official releases, instead of the so-called betas... but yeah, I've always used emulator WIPs if there is one available.

adventure_of_link · Post by **adventure_of_link** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:22 pm

Nach wrote: Sufami Turbo support (~15 games).

Not to go off topic, but what is Sufami Turbo? I've never heard of it.

Post by **Nach** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:48 pm

jdratlif wrote: The whole name WIP just reinforces that for me. It basically says, this isn't ready to be a release, but if you're feeling lucky, by all means.

I know this is entirely untrue. I'm just saying I don't think development versions are very trusted in general. The only (explicit) recommendation I have seen is by the users of this forum. Zophar.net has the WIP versions, but it puts them AFTER the 1.36 version. What is the message here?

I can't honestly say always use the WIPs over ZSNES, because it was just a week ago that I screwed up saving of SRAM to a file in the process of improving the handling of SFX SRAM. There is an inherent risk in WIPs due to them not being thoroughly tested.

In general though, the WIPs are highly superior. Just look at how much better sound, special chip support, graphic pack support, ROM loadup, snapshots and other things are since v1.36.

About releasing already. I can see people complaining about SRAM Path in the GUI which is currently a dummy option, and I just haven't had the patience, time or motivation to work on it.

We also need the the documentation updated. So other than that, I really wish we could release already.

About trusting development versions, here's my take.
If I'm working on a project, I definitly use the development version, which I think is obvious.
In NSRT for example, development versions are usually so good they put the previous release to shame. There just usually is a bug waiting to be found in one of the new features which means can't release without having a few people test first.

Even in projects I haven't worked on, most of the time once the project had at least one stable release development versions are pretty stable except for the new stuff. The only exception I know is GNU programs, for some reason their development versions sometimes have the most basic stuff not working.

Post by **Nach** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:49 pm

adventure_of_link wrote:
Nach wrote: Sufami Turbo support (~15 games).
Not to go off topic, but what is Sufami Turbo? I've never heard of it.

Others can give you more info, but if you want to know from what you have, any game that NSRT renames ending with .st is from the Sufami Turbo.

Mexandrew · Post by **Mexandrew** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:24 pm

adventure_of_link wrote:
Nach wrote: Sufami Turbo support (~15 games).
Not to go off topic, but what is Sufami Turbo? I've never heard of it.

The Sufami turbo is a device that lets the Super Famicom use 2 mini-cartridges. If they are compatible, the one in the second slot can open a secret feature in the cart on the slot 1. Look in SnesCentral for more info.

adventure_of_link · Post by **adventure_of_link** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:02 pm

Alright, thanks Nach and mexandrew.

mexandrew wrote:The Sufami turbo is a device that lets the Super Famicom use 2 mini-cartridges. If they are compatible, the one in the second slot can open a secret feature in the cart on the slot 1. Look in SnesCentral for more info.

Ahh, so that's why I've never heard of it