TFT/LCD Monitors & zsnes (btw i'm too stupid to learn the name of the emulator) 60FPS/ 120HZ

ST Dragon · Post by **ST Dragon** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:47 am

I want to buy a TFT monitor.
I’ll be using it mainly for games, 3D PC games & 2D emulators.

At the moment I’m using a 17” EIZO CRT F55S.
When I play 2D Emu games, MAME, NEOGEO, Capcom, SNES, genesis, etc…which are at 60FPS, I have to set the display at 120HZ or else the video will appear dithering & there will be jerky, tearing effects in horizontal scrolling. (Example: when using ZSNES, the Intro in Super Contra III, the horizontal scrolling letters “Alien Wars” are jerky at 75HZ)
But at 120HZ everything is smooth.

I noticed that most TFT monitor’s refresh rate don’t go over 75HZ so is there going to be dithering & tearing in the video display when I play games in MAME & other 2D games at 60FPS?
Also the response time in TFTs is considerably larger than CRT monitors (12-25ms)
Will that also degrade 2D & 3D gaming experience?

How about this:
EIZO 17'' L550
http://www.eizo.com/products/lcd/l550/index.asp#
Specs:
http://www.eizo.com/products/lcd/l550/spec.asp
I found this at a shop for 399 Euros / 534$ is this price ok?

Or this:
EIZO 17'' L551
http://www.eizo.com/products/lcd/l551/index.asp#
Specs:
http://www.eizo.com/products/lcd/l557/spec.asp

Thanks in advance.

Post by **grinvader** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:25 pm

If you can use a 60Hz refresh rate, you won't have tearing. 120 Hz is a multiple, so it also works.

60Hz is low enough for some people to have headaches looking at it a long time, though.

Edit: btw, I think this only applies to CRTs. TFTs don't have the whole blinky refresh thing.

Post by **Agozer** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:33 pm

I don't experience any tearing with my TFT monitor, nor does it degrade my overall gaming experince, no matter what the game is.

ST Dragon · Post by **ST Dragon** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:57 pm

at what refresh rate do you play games?
60HZ cause me headaches on my CRT, but I've heard that 60HZ is different on TFT.... I can't define it though.

OptiRoc · Post by **OptiRoc** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:58 pm

Most TFT displays I've used are locked at 60Hz, so in that sense they would be perfect for emulation. The fact that they also have a locked resolution makes them entirely crappy for emulation use, though.

OptiRoc · Post by **OptiRoc** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:01 pm

ST Dragon wrote:at what refresh rate do you play games?
60HZ cause me headaches on my CRT, but I've heard that 60HZ is different on TFT.... I can't define it though.

Easy: The phosphor of modern CRT screens fade much faster than the crystals in even the fastest TFT screen.

Stifu · Post by **Stifu** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:05 pm

The "btw i am dumb" thing never gets old.

kieran_ · Post by **kieran_** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:07 pm

Stifu wrote:The "btw i am dumb" thing never gets old.

I don't even notice it any more.

Johan_H · Post by **Johan_H** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:43 pm

zsnes (btw i'm too stupid to learn the name of the emulator)
wohoo!

kieran_ · Post by **kieran_** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:59 pm

Since when did it change? You know, it makes a lot more sense this way.

Stifu · Post by **Stifu** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:01 pm

It might make more sense, but it's longer, less offensive and less funny. :p

ST Dragon · Post by **ST Dragon** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:02 pm

OptiRoc wrote:
ST Dragon wrote:at what refresh rate do you play games?
60HZ cause me headaches on my CRT, but I've heard that 60HZ is different on TFT.... I can't define it though.
Easy: The phosphor of modern CRT screens fade much faster than the crystals in even the fastest TFT screen.

Is 60HZ on a TFT as tiring as on CRT?
I can’t stand 60HZ on my CRT, gives me headaches…

Nightcrawler · Post by **Nightcrawler** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:08 pm

LCD monitor won't give you a headache. The screen doesn't get redrawn like a CRT.

blackmyst · Post by **blackmyst** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:34 pm

I've noticed that 60 hz on a CRT monitor is annoying on something like a white windows....window. But when the image is rather dark, as with many SNES games, you barely notice it. I suppose that makes perfect sense. *cough*

Also, if you get a headache from 60 hz on a CRT, don't sit with your face like 2 inches from the screen like a monkey. Imagine if you did that with a TV.

And yeah, I hate TFT monitors. Anything but 1280x1024 looks like piss on the one we have now.

Post by **Agozer** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:40 pm

My TFT runs at 75hz in Windows. Most games I play use the same Hz too, but if a game uses 60Hz, I don't really recognize it.

Oblivion · Post by **Oblivion** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:38 pm

I use 75 Hz for most everything, and never notice any problems in Zsnes.

Nightcrawler · Post by **Nightcrawler** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:22 pm

My CRT used to have screen jitter and a very high pitched noise at 60+75hz, but turn it to 100hz and it was silent and looked great.

kieran_ · Post by **kieran_** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:26 pm

My monitor at anything less than 85hz makes my head ache.The LCDs's in my college have either 6oHz or 75Hz and It seems supersharp and headache free.

bztunk · Post by **bztunk** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:10 pm

zsnes
ZSNES

snkcube · Post by **snkcube** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 12:19 am

bztunk wrote:zsnes
ZSNES

Uh?

Post by **Agozer** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:05 am

snkcube wrote:
bztunk wrote:zsnes
ZSNES
Uh?

That made no sense.

ST Dragon · Post by **ST Dragon** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:32 pm

I've read this at another forum:

The big thing that makes LCDs somewhat unsuitable for 2d games is the fact that they can only run in one resolution. So unless the game you're playing runs in the same res as your monitor's native resolution, you're going to get nasty scaling effects. These bother some people more than others, but personally I can't stand them. If you're emulating, you're pretty much going to be okay as long as you can scale the image to an integer multiple of the original resolution, but you likely won't get a fullscreen display that way. Also keep in mind that scaling the image is going to be slow compared to running a game at its native res. On my machine, for example, Psikyo games start dropping frames if I scale them more than 2x.

I don't quite understand what he's trying to say? I've seen TFT monitors that support 640, 800 & 1024 resolutions at 60 - 75HZ no problem.

One feature I would like in a TFT monitor, is being able to to tilt the screen 90 degrees verticaly.
I would like to play Ikaruga vertical & some other shmups in Mame without having to strecth the display.

Can you do that with this 21" Samsung monitor?
Which one can?

Thanks.

Post by **Agozer** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:45 pm

ST Dragon wrote:One feature I would like in a TFT monitor, is being able to rotate it at any angle & tilt the screen 90 degrees verticaly.
I would like to play Ikaruga vertical & some other shmups in Mame without having to strecth the display.

Anyone knows one that can?

Thanks.

Why don't you just let your video card drivers do it for you?

My school has a bunch of DELL computers that have rotating TFT displays though.

ST Dragon · Post by **ST Dragon** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:59 pm

Because I want to play vertical shmups without the black borders on the sides when displayed verticaly on a normal screen.

Also if you rotate the display you end up playing a vertical game in horizontal view (Ikaruga, Raiden...) Bahh..

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:49 pm

ST Dragon wrote:I've read this at another forum:

The big thing that makes LCDs somewhat unsuitable for 2d games is the fact that they can only run in one resolution. So unless the game you're playing runs in the same res as your monitor's native resolution, you're going to get nasty scaling effects. These bother some people more than others, but personally I can't stand them. If you're emulating, you're pretty much going to be okay as long as you can scale the image to an integer multiple of the original resolution, but you likely won't get a fullscreen display that way. Also keep in mind that scaling the image is going to be slow compared to running a game at its native res. On my machine, for example, Psikyo games start dropping frames if I scale them more than 2x.

I don't quite understand what he's trying to say? I've seen TFT monitors that support 640, 800 & 1024 resolutions at 60 - 75HZ no problem.

They support all 3 modes. But only one is the native resolution(likely 1024*768).
The other 2 are resampled to the native resolution, which generates a lot of artifacting. Find some fine detail, like hte text on your desktop icons, and look at it. It's a bit fuzzy. Look closely and you'll see a lot of half-color pixels around the area trying to make it look right.