The importance of proper education.

[Johan_H]

But a person who can't tell Korea from Australia [...] most likely didn't pay attention at all in school

Provided it's been taught to them in school at all. Some of the comments on that YT video said it's optional? [/hearsay]

They can still watch the news or look at a world map for more than two seconds.

Either way, someone who doesn't know shit about geography shouldn't be giving or attempting to form an opinion on foreign politics.

I don't see how these are connected really, but, yeah, I agree that people should stfu about things they know nothing about.

[Oskar_Hanberg]

Sigh.. this seems to happen in every single thread I post in.. and yet I do nothing to deserve it.. I still have the feeling this is all because I don't give a flying fuck about copyright, well.. am I not entitled to my OPINION just like everybody else?

Re-read your posts. There's a reason you're singled out... You say some pretty ignorant un-thought out things often times. My money is on that being a primary reason you get heat. You also present unpopular opinion without any supporting evidence whatsoever. An opinion without supporting evidence is worthless.

I don't know why I even bothered to write this to you. I just believe you really are clueless as to why people come down on you. And like all problems, we can't fix it if we don't know what it is.

facts need evidence, opinions need REASONS. I do provide the reasons for my opinions, so I don't understand why the hell I am being jumped on now? With my statement "proper education" I meant for the people in the video, not Americans in general but some of you seem to enjoy to bash on me for no fucking reason. again FACTS need evidence, this is about opinions!!

[Deathlike2]

Sigh.. this seems to happen in every single thread I post in.. and yet I do nothing to deserve it.. I still have the feeling this is all because I don't give a flying fuck about copyright, well.. am I not entitled to my OPINION just like everybody else?

Re-read your posts. There's a reason you're singled out... You say some pretty ignorant un-thought out things often times. My money is on that being a primary reason you get heat. You also present unpopular opinion without any supporting evidence whatsoever. An opinion without supporting evidence is worthless.

I don't know why I even bothered to write this to you. I just believe you really are clueless as to why people come down on you. And like all problems, we can't fix it if we don't know what it is.

facts need evidence, opinions need REASONS. I do provide the reasons for my opinions, so I don't understand why the hell I am being jumped on now? With my statement "proper education" I meant for the people in the video, not Americans in general but some of you seem to enjoy to bash on me for no fucking reason. again FACTS need evidence, this is about opinions!!

Certainly you are entitled to an opinion, but you would be ignorant if you sound like you know nothing which in many cases, is what you have posted. Opinions need valid reasons, not "the generic answer" you have been spouting. If your reasoning is faulty, then your opinion makes no sense.

[Oskar_Hanberg]

What is "faulty" or not is an opinion too.

[Deathlike2]

What is "faulty" or not is an opinion too.

Yes, that is why people insult your opinion. If you don't feel like comprehending that, then please continue on your merry way.

[Oskar_Hanberg]

I don't have a problem with people disliking my opinion, my problem is that far too many people here seem to think their opinions are unarguable facts, thats what pisses me off.

[Deathlike2]

I don't have a problem with people disliking my opinion, my problem is that far too many people here seem to think their opinions are unarguable facts, thats what pisses me off.

That may be true at times, but they have valid reasons more often than not.

[Joe Camacho]

Contrary to popular beliefs, opinions can be wrong. There, I said it.

Hey, it's my opinion that women should be stoned to death if they wear a short skirt.

Hey, it's my opinion that I should be able to download all the mp3s I want for free, even if they are owned by someone else.

Hey, it's my opinion that, if I see a couple of *insert nationality* people giving wrong answers to random trivia, then it's safe to assume that the general population is stupid.

It's easy to shield in "My opinion" to spill uninformed and unsupported statements, but don't be surprised when someone, or a group of people, shoots you down.

Now, that for me, is stupid and uneducated.

And what if I can't locate Australia in a World Map? That doesn't make me a moron, as long as I can find my country and it's boundaries, what's the big deal? If I were a cartographer or someone that is supposed to know where Australia is located, I would be in trouble. Hell, that doesn't even makes me stupid, just a BAD CARTOGRAPHER.

The thing is, stupidness, "in my opinion", should be measured by someone's actions or actitude, not someone's knowledge. Someone can know a lot of stuff and still do something really stupid.

stu·pid /ˈstupɪd, ˈstyu‑/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[stoo-pid, styoo‑] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation adjective, -er, -est, noun
–adjective
1. lacking ordinary quickness and keenness of mind; dull.
2. characterized by or proceeding from mental dullness; foolish; senseless: a stupid question.
3. tediously dull, esp. due to lack of meaning or sense; inane; pointless: a stupid party.
4. annoying or irritating; troublesome: Turn off that stupid radio.
5. in a state of stupor; stupefied: stupid from fatigue.
6. Slang. excellent; terrific.
–noun
7. Informal. a stupid person.

If someone's actions or actitude is foolish, dull or senseless, it can be stupid.

[funkyass]

I don't have a problem with people disliking my opinion, my problem is that far too many people here seem to think their opinions are unarguable facts, thats what pisses me off.

That may be true at times, but they have valid reasons more often than not.

With actual evidence to back it up.

[Deathlike2]

Contrary to popular beliefs, opinions can be wrong. There, I said it.

That is true.

It's easy to shield in "My opinion" to spill uninformed and unsupported statements, but don't be surprised when someone, or a group of people, shoots you down.

Now, that for me, is stupid and uneducated.

Exactly.

[Oskar_Hanberg]

"Contrary to popular beliefs, opinions can be wrong. There, I said it."

I disagree.

"Hey, it's my opinion that I should be able to download all the mp3s I want for free, even if they are owned by someone else."

Says the guy who in one thread bashed me for having the opinion you can't really claim the ownership of non material stuff that can be copied and reproduced so long as you don't lose the original data, then asks in another thread what p2p applications that are good to use now a days. That is, in my opinion, is high level hypocricy

"Hey, it's my opinion that, if I see a couple of *insert nationality* people giving wrong answers to random trivia, then it's safe to assume that the general population is stupid."

I did say It was about the individuals, not the nation as a whole. but you obviously missed that.

It's easy to shield in "My opinion" to spill uninformed and unsupported statements, but don't be surprised when someone, or a group of people, shoots you down.

if they shoot me down because they don't like my OPINION, fine, but if they shoot me down because they think I am talking about facts, thats just not fair.


"And what if I can't locate Australia in a World Map? That doesn't make me a moron, as long as I can find my country and it's boundaries, what's the big deal? If I were a cartographer or someone that is supposed to know where Australia is located, I would be in trouble. Hell, that doesn't even makes me stupid, just a BAD CARTOGRAPHER. "

There are certain things everyone at a certain age is expected to know. if you only socialize with people who don't give a shit if you do, thats fine, but in the eyes of the public, you will seem stupid.

[Joe Camacho]

"Contrary to popular beliefs, opinions can be wrong. There, I said it."

I disagree.

"Hey, it's my opinion that I should be able to download all the mp3s I want for free, even if they are owned by someone else."

Says the guy who in one thread bashed me for having the opinion you can't really claim the ownership of non material stuff that can be copied and reproduced so long as you don't lose the original data, then asks in another thread what p2p applications that are good to use now a days. That is, in my opinion, is high level hypocricy

No it is not, because, contrary to you, I don't think it's my right to obtain copyrighted material, or serious believe that "information should flow freely" regardless if you give credit or pay the ammount the creator merit for. I know what I am doing and I'm not trying to justify myself.

I don't pay for stuff because I don't have the money to do it, simple as that, or I can't find it where I live, I don't try to justify myself with communist pseudo-philosphy bullshit. If I had the money, I would buy it.

Contrary to you, you think it's ok to do it. That it should be like that, and artists and all those people involved in the creation of media should live from love and happiness because they shouldn't charge or get paid for their work.

Then you will tell me that they aren't lossing money, they aren't just "Winning as much as they could". Well dude, it's the same thing, if you are charging for work you do, 1000 happy dollars, but the person who hired you tells you "I will only pay you 500, you aren't LOSSING money, you aren't WINNING as much as you want to."

You would think that's bullshit, but hey, Artists and all those involved should do that right? Because they shouldn't get paid for what they do?

Then you will ask me for "proof" of how the music industry is "burning to the ground and lots of people are losing their jobs, and it's not just the evil capitalists pulling the strings." Well, I can't give you evidence of that, because it's pretty stupid to ask it. It is obvious the music industry isn't in a crisis, but it's also obvious they are trying to take measures to secure their profits, just like, no shit, any other person/entity that's goal is to make money.

But anyway, I'm giving too much importance to you.

And there you go again, shielding yourself over the "my opinion", do it if you please, but like I already said, don't be surprised if people shoot them down. You want to think everyone hates you? Fine. But even opinions, as any other argument most be backed up with facts.

Society has paradigms and axioms that are accepted as truths, going against them can be considered wrong, opinion or not... Guess what you need to change axioms and paradigms? Facts.

Hey, in my opinion all swedish should be killed and Sweden bombed to hell.

But anyway, I'm sure you are going to dismiss all this and just say that I hate you, that I'm an elitist or all that crap you like to say to hide the fact that you fail in argument building, specially trying to defend your communist views against a bunch of capitalists.

[Deathlike2]

But anyway, I'm sure you are going to dismiss all this and just say that I hate you, that I'm an elitist or all that crap you like to say to hide the fact that you fail in argument building, specially trying to defend your communist views against a bunch of capitalists.

This is gold.

[Oskar_Hanberg]

@ Camacho: I don't think you hate me, I just think you (among others on this forum) think you are superior to other people due to certain opinions you have. That disturbs me. Also, can you give me an example of a FACT to PROVE THE LEGITIMACY in the opinion "I like the color blue better than yellow"?
Opinions have more to do with feelings and personal experiences than anything else.

In the case with the record industry. they will lose just as much money when you download an album as when I do, they won't lose less money because you "know what you do is wrong" and from their point of view we are both thieves, but you are JUSTIFYING your actions with saying what you do is wrong. also FYI the artists get far more money from concerts than sold records, the only people you "steal" money from are the executives of the record companies, witch I have no problem with doing at all as I think that their choice of distribution is old and outdated. But they managed to suck the dicks of politicians enough to enforce their marketing model by law, and if you want to change a law, you have to "disobey" it, if a law lacks support from a majority of the population, it should be removed or altered.

Regarding your example with the opinion about bombing and Sweden I would ask a reason. and you said "Because I think Sweden sucks ass" I would maybe DISAGREE with you, but you are entitled to having whatever opinions you want and I wouldn't start calling you a moron. Because I don't have the view that certain opinions are better than others, I simply agree or disagree and everything in between.

[Starman Ghost]

It is my opinion that this thread is the best.

[adventure_of_link]

It is my opinion that this thread should be locked.

However, I'm in a good mood, so I'll leave it open.

[Deathlike2]

@ Camacho: I don't think you hate me, I just think you (among others on this forum) think you are superior to other people due to certain opinions you have. That disturbs me. Also, can you give me an example of a FACT to PROVE THE LEGITIMACY in the opinion "I like the color blue better than yellow"?
Opinions have more to do with feelings and personal experiences than anything else.

Noone can force you to like a particular color and that's fine. However, there are issues where you clearly don't understand how things work.

In the case with the record industry. they will lose just as much money when you download an album as when I do, they won't lose less money because you "know what you do is wrong" and from their point of view we are both thieves, but you are JUSTIFYING your actions with saying what you do is wrong. also FYI the artists get far more money from concerts than sold records, the only people you "steal" money from are the executives of the record companies, witch I have no problem with doing at all as I think that their choice of distribution is old and outdated. But they managed to suck the dicks of politicians enough to enforce their marketing model by law, and if you want to change a law, you have to "disobey" it, if a law lacks support from a majority of the population, it should be removed or altered.

When you create something, such as music, and want to sell it, there are laws protecting the creator for selling this. If they don't want to sell it for profit, that's fine to and that is their choice. However, the choice is not yours. You don't have to agree with the fact the record companies, the author, or whoever is involved make most of the money of the cds, that doesn't give you any right to say that you can obtain it for free. There is literally no justification for it.

Here's a better example of what piracy is. Say you have a lemonade stand. You charge everyone .10 for a glass of lemonade. Let's say someone doesn't pay for it and just outright take the pitcher of lemonade from you. That's exactly what piracy is. It doesn't matter what form it takes, whether it is a paper document, a cd, or actual data. The fact that you decide that you can obtain anything because you can is not justifiable on any courts at all. As long as you do not pay for a legitimate copy, you can be held liable for that.

Another example... Say you were working for someone. You did exactly what your job was. However, they decide not to pay you. You clearly did work, but get no compensation. Data, like anything that was created, is generally something that the creators want compensation for (in most cases, it is money). If you believe that data is supposed to flow "free", like the Internet service you use to get online, then you are sadly mistaken.

[Joe Camacho]

But they managed to suck the dicks of politicians enough to enforce their marketing model by law, and if you want to change a law, you have to "disobey" it, if a law lacks support from a majority of the population, it should be removed or altered.

Something for you to chew, a bit of logic by yours truly:

Who makes the law? A legislative branch of a government.
Who votes toward said legislative branch? The citizens of a given country.
What's the point of choosing them? Because all the population can't vote, so they choose someone that suits their interests.
What happens when a representative or a senator votes? They excersise the will of the people that chose them.
When they vote and make laws? They are also representing the will of the people.
Therefore, when laws are made, they are made by the will of the people represented by their elected representatives.

You don't like copyright law? Or any other law? that doesn't give you the right to break it. That gives you the right to complain by the authorized channels about your displeasure of the law. But if SERIOUSLY think that there is going to be government policy that would destroy a tax paying industry just so you don't have to spend money buying stuff, boy you are stupid.

Seriously, you like spilling that bullshit about "THE MAYORITY OF THE POPULATION THIS" and "THE MAYORITY OF THE POPULATION THAT", there is a "pirate party" in Sweden right? Well, ONCE THIS PARTY IS ELECTED FOR OFFICE, I will believe that the mayority of your population really wants to be able to infringe copyrights then.

But I wonder.. Is Sweden member of any copyright or patent international treaty? If Sweden is part of the European Community it wouldn't surprise me, but don't listen to me, it's obvious that I'm an evil Capitalist and you FIGHT FOR THE PEOPLE.

But seriously those who fight to abolish copyright laws are:
1) People that are too cheap to buy stuff.
2) Uncreative people.
3) People that don't want to pay to use other people's ideas or creations.
4) Communists.

[Deathlike2]

But they managed to suck the dicks of politicians enough to enforce their marketing model by law, and if you want to change a law, you have to "disobey" it, if a law lacks support from a majority of the population, it should be removed or altered.

Something for you to chew, a bit of logic by yours truly:

Who makes the law? A legislative branch of a government.
Who votes toward said legislative branch? The citizens of a given country.
What's the point of choosing them? Because all the population can't vote, so they choose someone that suits their interests.
What happens when a representative or a senator votes? They excersise the will of the people that chose them.
When they vote and make laws? They are also representing the will of the people.
Therefore, when laws are made, they are made by the will of the people represented by their elected representatives.

You don't like copyright law? Or any other law? that doesn't give you the right to break it. That gives you the right to complain by the authorized channels about your displeasure of the law. But if SERIOUSLY think that there is going to be government policy that would destroy a tax paying industry just so you don't have to spend money buying stuff, boy you are stupid.

Seriously, you like spilling that bullshit about "THE MAYORITY OF THE POPULATION THIS" and "THE MAYORITY OF THE POPULATION THAT", there is a "pirate party" in Sweden right? Well, ONCE THIS PARTY IS ELECTED FOR OFFICE, I will believe that the mayority of your population really wants to be able to infringe copyrights then.

But I wonder.. Is Sweden member of any copyright or patent international treaty? If Sweden is part of the European Community it wouldn't surprise me, but don't listen to me, it's obvious that I'm an evil Capitalist and you FIGHT FOR THE PEOPLE.

But seriously those who fight to abolish copyright laws are:
1) People that are too cheap to buy stuff.
2) Uncreative people.
3) People that don't want to pay to use other people's ideas or creations.
4) Communists.

Joe, you are too logical, thus I will ignore your valid points.[/Oskar]

IIRC, the point of disobeying the laws is if it is actually unjust. That is why there was a war over it (hint: Revolutionary War, Civil War, etc.). However, the laws for media+data are truly not unjust. If the data you want requires payment, well then, you pay for it. This is truly a no brainer. The copyright laws suck in the US, but the basic idea for them are sound. As long as people want payment for stuff they created (doesn't matter whether they are poor or not), these laws exist for a reason. It will not go away unless money is abolished. Even if it is abolished, you will have to provide some means acquiring it (by trade or service you provide). This has been true for as long as people have lived.

[Joe Camacho]

The reason for a revolution or civilian resistance is when two legal/juristic interests are in conflict, each with different value (For example, the liberty of slaves against the property of slave users: US Civil War (As an example, the US civil war was more complex than that) and the State for some reason is supporting the less valuable of both.

In this particular "subject", we have what?

The right of Property over your creations Vs "Being able to get whatever I want, without paying the people that made it"?

What right or what legal interest is in conflict with the right of people to charge for the work they do? For the creations they make? The right for people to make money?

Tell me Oskar, what juristic or legal interest can be so BIG, that those who's life is dedicated to work in this industry (Because they get paid to do it) have to sacrifice themselves in order for a bunch of cheapasses to get stuff for free?

I'm in favor in a reform in patent and copyright laws, but abolishing them? That's ridiculous, I want to be able to protect what I create, what I write. I don't want to spend time and effort in something, only for a lazy ass to come and say "FAIR USE", and take away my work.

You are seriously uneducated.

[Deathlike2]

You know what would be funny if he thinks the Internets are free as in.. money is not used for funding the Internet itself.

[soulmata]

It is my opinion that this thread is the best.

it was dull and lifeless than the soulmartha came around and jumpstarted it

[Panzer88]

this thread is great, the internet is a concept, it is a bunch of independent servers, all accessible through a series of networks. They all have to pay for utilities, copyrights, etc. but the internet itself is not some single entity or cooperation.

not that you didn't already know that Deathlike2, but some people might not

I've gotta see where this thread goes

[sweener2001]

oskar's stupid. at least he is, in my opinion.

and i'll use this thread as proof

[Joe Camacho]

It is my opinion that this thread is the best.

it was dull and lifeless than the soulmartha came around and jumpstarted it

And some dare to say that you don't contribute to this forum.