Is this stuff legal

what · Post by **what** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:49 am

Everyone in this thread is under arrest!

Bean · Post by **Bean** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 4:27 am

WTF is a dumper? (heh,heh dump). Also say I do download something does that mean if the government finds out the feds will one day bust into my house and smash my computer. If so that would kick so much fuckin' ass.

adventure_of_link · Post by **adventure_of_link** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:13 am

Bean wrote:WTF is a dumper? (heh,heh dump).

It's a tool which allows you to copy all the contents of your <insert random system which used cartridges here> cartridges to file format.

Bean wrote:Also say I do download something does that mean if the government finds out the feds will one day bust into my house and smash my computer. If so that would kick so much fuckin' ass.

Yes and no. If the government found out that you were downloading and/or doing illegal things, they can send the FBI, RIAA and/or <insert another random tough anti-piracy group here> to your front door. And no, they won't smash your computer, they'll just confiscate it, scan its hard drive, and make a more informed decision from there.

Post by **grinvader** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:50 am

Dolphin wrote:Napster came out for Microsoft Windows, and also other, more and more programs came out that make it easier to do illegal things and the're all built for Microsoft. Thats why Microsoft is so successfull. Its even possible to downlaod MS windows

in other operating systems they are more secure, or too secure to make programs that make illegal stuff easier, or its not as easy on to make such programs on other operating systems

Dude, peer to peer clients are out for every OS out there. Open your eyes once in a while...

Bean · Post by **Bean** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 5:05 pm

and just what are the chances of the government finding out? also what is the point of an emulator if all you do is take that same game(and you already own it) and play it on the computer? isn't it just better to just play it on your snes?

Joe Camacho · Post by **Joe Camacho** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 5:08 pm

Bean wrote:and just what are the chances of the government finding out? also what is the point of an emulator if all you do is take that same game(and you already own it) and play it on the computer? isn't it just better to just play it on your snes?

My snes isn't now what it was about 7 years ago.

Nightcrawler · Post by **Nightcrawler** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 6:51 pm

Yeah. I kept great care of my SNES and it's still slowly on it's way out the door. It's a bit discolored now and the cartridge slot has lost it's grip and doesnt' make good contact anymore. I got it soon after the system came out. That was 1991 I guess. That's nearly 14 years ago! I've got my money's worth.

Malcster · Post by **Malcster** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:42 pm

Dolphin wrote:If Nintendo would make its own emulators easy to get and make its own dumpers very hard to get but possible, then Nintendo will make so much money, by selling there emulators.

An even better way for them to make "so much money" would be to make consoles and games and sell them instead.

Or make dumpers with a function to break itself so after about 10copies, it would break itself or scramble all of its programable rom. Then they resselll to same people make lots of money

Yes, this would work because people are fucking dumbasses and would relish handing over cash for a purposely crippled machine. I bet they'd be queueing round the block for their 7th replacement dumper.

Microsoft makes lots of money because of lots of programs that make it easier to do illegal stuff. E.g. Windows media player burns music CD's, copy's music CD's, Napster came out for Microsoft Windows, and also other, more and more programs came out that make it easier to do illegal things and the're all built for Microsoft. Thats why Microsoft is so successfull. Its even possible to downlaod MS windows

So the reason microsoft makes money is because it's software allows you to do illegal things. Such as stealing it's software. But then Microsoft wouldn't make money at all, surely?

in other operating systems they are more secure, or too secure to make programs that make illegal stuff easier, or its not as easy on to make such programs on other operating systems

What the crap? Seriously, do you have a clue what you are talking about?

Thus in order to succeed very well in business one must "contribute silently" to the makeing of illegal stuff. or just make really really good stuff.

Haha with that ending you make it sound like some kind of thesis.

Sorry dude but Nintendo aren't going to start selling their emulators. They are possibly the most vocal anti-emulation video games company of them all.

Bean · Post by **Bean** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 4:13 am

another thing if ROM's are illegal then why do I find them everywhere on the net. I mean you just go to google then type in the name then ROM (example I guess: Super Mario ROM) and up pops a buncho links that get you to places that let you download ROMs.

Dolphin · Post by **Dolphin** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 4:20 am

Bean wrote:another thing if ROM's are illegal then why do I find them everywhere on the net. I mean you just go to google then type in the name then ROM (example I guess: Super Mario ROM) and up pops a buncho links that get you to places that let you download ROMs.

Its part of Nintendo's plan. Have a bunch of people do these stuff, then release bigger and better stuff, wich will resualt to more illegal "variations" of activity's and then sew everyone at once. I remember one business did something very simmiler to that. But the it wasn't a "big" business, and also it was done as quiet as possible.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 5:36 am

Bean wrote:another thing if ROM's are illegal then why do I find them everywhere on the net. I mean you just go to google then type in the name then ROM (example I guess: Super Mario ROM) and up pops a buncho links that get you to places that let you download ROMs.

^^^ And then you end up with pr0n, 900 dialers, and spyware in your system. Not all of those sites will take you to where they say they do.

ROMS per se are not illegal. But distributing roms without the copyright holder's permission is. For example, John Romero has posted the rom GameBoyColor rom version of Daikatana, on a site he owns. Don't ask me, I only saw it for a second. This would be an exception, since he's the copyright owner.

Also, IIRC all the Vectrex roms had been released for personal use by the original copyright holders, according to www.classicgaming.com (no roms there, so don't worry, mods)

jdratlif · Post by **jdratlif** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 9:07 am

Malcster wrote:An even better way for them to make "so much money" would be to make consoles and games and sell them instead.

That hasn't worked so well these past few years.

I'm so glad they got their comeuppance. Nintendo has needed this wake-up call for years. They should've never screwed Sony over. Still, I would have liked to see what the Sontendo PlayCube 128 would have been like.

Malcster wrote:Sorry dude but Nintendo aren't going to start selling their emulators. They are possibly the most vocal anti-emulation video games company of them all.

True, but they are starting to wake up to emulation of late. Not true emulation, but have you seen the classics they've been releasing on GameBoy Advance? I saw the two original Zeldas on a GameCube disc that was a special from Nintendo Power.

Lot of companies are starting to release controllers with an old system and several games built in. For Christmas I got my nephew a Sega Genesis with 6 games. It's all built into a controller that plugs into the AV inputs on the TV. I saw an Atari one, too.

Bean · Post by **Bean** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:10 am

um...

i'm lost? Some say it is illegal and some say its legal so waht is it (I need to know so I can decide whether to download or not).

Post by **grinvader** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:23 am

Ok. To make it clear:

Legal
Dumping once your own carts using a copier.
Buying a ROM image.

Illegal
Everything else.

Happy now ? If you're afraid of the illegal way, be ready to shell out cash.

jdratlif · Post by **jdratlif** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:45 am

Bean wrote:um... i'm lost? Some say it is illegal and some say its legal so waht is it (I need to know so I can decide whether to download or not).

People tend to lie or choose a path of willful ignorance when it suits their needs. grinvader speaks the truth.

I think it should be noted that you can only buy a ROM image from someone who has the legal right to sell it, too. I can't sell you my ROM images, unless I sold you the cartridge it came with. Then it would be YOUR backup copy, and I would no longer have a right to it.

Anyone selling ROM images on eBay is almost certainly breaking the law. But Namco could conceivably sell you a Pac-Man arcade ROM set without selling you a Pac-Man arcade machine.

Nightcrawler · Post by **Nightcrawler** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:21 pm

Isn't there a little bit of gray area here? I mean yes, it's absolutely illegal to distribute copyrighted material. So the people distributing the ROMS are doing illegal actions.

However, is it necessarily illegal for the downloader? I compare it to maybe some guy selling bootleg DVD's in the city. He's illegally selling them, but are you necessarily illegally buying them? How are you supposed to know he is not liscensed to sell them to you?

It coincides with the RIAA/MPAA lawsuits a bit. They are suing the people who are distributing the material for illegal distribution of copyrighted material.

jdratlif · Post by **jdratlif** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 3:52 pm

Nightcrawler wrote:Isn't there a little bit of gray area here? I mean yes, it's absolutely illegal to distribute copyrighted material. So the people distributing the ROMS are doing illegal actions.

However, is it necessarily illegal for the downloader? I compare it to maybe some guy selling bootleg DVD's in the city. He's illegally selling them, but are you necessarily illegally buying them? How are you supposed to know he is not liscensed to sell them to you?

Possession of stolen property is a crime in the U.S. I don't see why possession of stolen intellectual property would be different. Although it might be pursued with less vigor than the person who sold it to you.

I think people who buy bootleg movies know full well they're breaking the law. Willful ignorance, like I mentioned earlier.

While it is possible a legal source may be selling ROMs, it seems unlikely at best that you found this particular person.

Bean · Post by **Bean** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:56 pm

So if I was to download a ROM illegally I would get in trouble. Well what about the person who supplied it?

Noxious Ninja · Post by **Noxious Ninja** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:19 pm

jdratlif wrote:Possession of stolen property is a crime in the U.S. I don't see why possession of stolen intellectual property would be different. Although it might be pursued with less vigor than the person who sold it to you.

Because copyright infringement is a civil issue?

Even if you knowingly buy a pirated movie, I still think they can only throw criminal charges at the seller.

jdratlif · Post by **jdratlif** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:46 pm

Noxious Ninja wrote:
jdratlif wrote:Possession of stolen property is a crime in the U.S. I don't see why possession of stolen intellectual property would be different. Although it might be pursued with less vigor than the person who sold it to you.
Because copyright infringement is a civil issue?

Even if you knowingly buy a pirated movie, I still think they can only throw criminal charges at the seller.

But it's not copyright infringement. That's not what the buyer is guilty of. He's guilty of possessing property that has been stolen.

Why would it be civil to buy a bootleg but criminal to buy a stolen Rolex? In both cases you are purchasing things the seller stole. They can't charge you with theft, because you didn't steal, but you are guilty of possessing stolen property.

Come to think of it, if you knowingly bought one, wouldn't you be an accessory after the fact?

Noxious Ninja · Post by **Noxious Ninja** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:54 pm

How are bootlegs stolen property?

jdratlif · Post by **jdratlif** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:00 pm

Noxious Ninja wrote:How are bootlegs stolen property?

The content is the stolen property.

Noxious Ninja · Post by **Noxious Ninja** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:06 pm

The contents may infringe certain copyrights, but it most definately is not stolen.

jdratlif · Post by **jdratlif** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:24 pm

Noxious Ninja wrote:The contents may infringe certain copyrights, but it most definately is not stolen.

I can't decide whether the term "stolen" must relate to a physical item or not.

It seems to me that a copy of a copyrighted work is theft, even if the original media from which the copy was produced was not stolen; theft of potential profit, theft of copyright.

But I see what you mean.

I still don't think the buyer is guilty of copyright infringment, and that it's still a crime (more of one if the buyer knows it's a bootleg), but I can't be sure if it consitutes receiving stolen property of not.

If it doesn't, maybe you are right and there is no crime for the buyer at all. But this just doesn't seem right to me. If it's not a crime on the books now, I have no doubt it will be.

Noxious Ninja · Post by **Noxious Ninja** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:42 pm

You may not be able to decide, but the law has. Distributing illegal copies for gain is a criminal offense. Distributing copies for free, as well as receiving/making copies yourself, is a civil offense.